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Davarish

Unit And Building Names

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I would like to suggest anglicizing some names (but not translating them), in order to make them easier to read. In particular, it seems to me that it would be better if the diacritic/accent marks were removed. For instance: naming the Greek Hoplite "Hoplites Hellenikos". I only know the norms of anglicization from old Scandinavian languages, but if anyone knows the norms of anglicization of Greek and etc. names, that would be even better than just removing the accent marks.

Edited by Andrettin
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The diacritical marks are good for the reason that Thorfinn said it's just that English speakers are not familiar with them as English is one of the few languages that avoids them.

Enjoy the Choice :)

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Has anybody mentioned Athenian Marine's name before?

I think it should be "Epibates Athenaikos" instead of "Epibastes Athenaikos".

Source: Perseus

Fixed. Thanks. :)

Now, to everyone else! We need names for the Ptolemaic Buildings! :) We have names for a few special buildings (lighthouse, military settlement, library) and we've used Greek for those for obvious reasons, but for the rest, like Civic Center, House, Dock, etc. I think it would be a good detail to use Anglicized or transliterated ancient Egyptian.

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Lighthouse was named Pharos for the Island where was placed.

Perhaps the most famous lighthouse in history is the Lighthouse of Alexandria, built on the island of Pharos in Hellenistic Egypt. The name Pharos is still used as the noun for "lighthouse" in some languages, for example: Albanian, Catalan, and Romanian (far), French (phare), Italian, Galician, and Spanish (faro), Armenian ("Փարօս/Paros"), Portuguese (farol), Bulgarian (фар), and Greek (φάρος). The term pharology (study of lighthouses) also derives from the island's name.[1]

Now with Library

Although the exact layout is not known, ancient sources describe the Library of Alexandria as comprising a collection of scrolls, a peripatos walk, a room for shared dining, a reading room, meeting rooms, gardens, and lecture halls. The influence of this model may still be seen today in the layout of university campuses. The library itself is known to have had an acquisitions department (possibly built near the stacks, or for utility closer to the harbour), and a cataloguing department. A hall contained shelves for the collections of papyrus scrolls known as bibliothekai (βιβλιοθῆκαι). According to popular description, an inscription above the shelves read: The place of the cure of the soul.[1]

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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There are egyptian lenguage by a ancient timeframe.

Scholars group the Egyptian language into six major chronological divisions:[9]

Archaic Egyptian (before 2600 BC, the language of the Early Dynastic Period)

Old Egyptian (2686 BC – 2181 BC, the language of the Old Kingdom)

Middle Egyptian (2055 BC – 1650 BC), characterizing Middle Kingdom (2055 BC – 1650 BC, but enduring through the early 18th Dynasty until the Amarna Period (1353 BC), and continuing on as a literary language into the 4th century AD).

Late Egyptian (1069 BC – 700 BC, characterizing the Third Intermediate Period (1069 BC – 700 BC), but starting earlier with the Amarna Period (1353 BC)).

Demotic (7th century BC – 5th century AD, Late Period through Roman times)

Coptic (1st century AD – 17th century AD, early Roman times to early modern times)

Egyptian writing in the form of labels and signs has been dated to 3200 BC. These early texts are generally lumped together under the general term "Archaic Egyptian."

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Demotic (7th century BC – 5th century AD, Late Period through Roman times)

Looks like we should use Demotic Egyptian when at all possible.

We need:

  • House/Household
  • Storehouse/Mining Camp/Lumber Camp
  • Farmstead/Granary
  • Farm Field/Farmer's Field/Farm
  • Corral/Livestock Pen/Barn
  • Dock
  • Palisade/Wooden Wall
  • Outpost/Scout Tower
  • Barracks
  • Blacksmith/Armory
  • Civic Center/Town Center/Plaza
  • Temple
  • Market/Marketplace/Bazaar
  • Defense Tower/Fortified Tower
  • Stone Wall/City Wall
  • Wall Tower/Wall Turret
  • City Gates
  • Fortress/Citadel
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Middle Demotic (c. 400–30 BC) is the stage of writing used during the Ptolemaic Period. From the 4th century BC onwards, Demotic held a higher status, as may be seen from its increasing use for literary and religious texts. By the end of the 3rd century BC, Greek was more important as it was the administrative language of the country; Demotic contracts lost most of their legal force unless there was a note in Greek of being registered with the authorities.

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If Pharaoh is big house ( means big house)
Pa-awy-semtaus house of Semtaus

The toponym Pa-awy-semtaus or “the house of Semtaus”

"Pa" is house in egyptian
I need confirm this.
https://www.academia.edu/2526284/Agriculture_and_Taxation_in_Early_Ptolemaic_Egypt_Demotic_Land_Surveys_and_Accounts


other source about Demotic Language.

http://es.scribd.com/doc/150620371/Demotic-Grammar

3AZ3fx1.png

kIUpYCW.png

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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Looks like we should use Demotic Egyptian when at all possible.

We need:

  • House/Household
  • Storehouse/Mining Camp/Lumber Camp pr-hd
  • Farmstead/Granary
  • Farm Field/Farmer's Field/Farm
  • Corral/Livestock Pen/Barn
  • Dock
  • Palisade/Wooden Wall
  • Outpost/Scout Tower
  • Barracks
  • Blacksmith/Armory
  • Civic Center/Town Center/Plaza
  • Temple hw.t-ntr
  • Market/Marketplace/Bazaar
  • Defense Tower/Fortified Tower
  • Stone Wall/City Wall
  • Wall Tower/Wall Turret
  • City Gates
  • Fortress/Citadel

see the bold text is Demotic (?)

zkJ4aeP.png

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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Demotic is a development of Late Egyptian and shares much with the later Coptic phase of the Egyptian language. In the earlier stages of Demotic, such as those texts written in the Early Demotic script, it probably represented the spoken idiom of the time. But, as it was increasingly used for only literary and religious purposes, the written language diverged more and more from the spoken form, giving Late Demotic texts an artificial character, similar to the use of classical Middle Egyptian during the Ptolemaic Period.

In the field of Egyptology, transliteration is the process of converting (or mapping) texts written in the Egyptian language to alphabetic symbols representing uniliteral hieroglyphs or their hieratic and Demotic counterparts. This process facilitates the publication of texts where the inclusion of photographs or drawings of an actual Egyptian document is impractical.

It should be emphasised that transliteration is not the same as transcription. Transcription seeks to reproduce the pronunciation of a text. For example, the name of the founder of the Twenty-second dynasty is transliterated as nq but transcribed Shoshenq in English, Chéchanq in French, Sjesjonk in Dutch, and Scheschonq in German.

Due to the exact details regarding the phonetics of ancient Egyptian not being completely known, most transcriptions depend on Coptic for reconstruction or are theoretical in nature. Egyptologists, therefore, rely on transliteration in scientific publications.

Although these conventional approaches to transliteration have been followed since most of the second half of the nineteenth century to the present day, there have been some attempts to adopt a modified system that seeks to utilise the International Phonetic Alphabet to a certain degree. The most successful of these is that developed by Wolfgang Schenkel (1990), and it is being used fairly widely in Germany and other German-speaking countries. More recent is a proposal by Thomas Schneider (2003) that is even closer to the IPA, but its usage is not presently common. The major criticism levelled against both of these systems is that they give an impression of being much more scientifically accurate with regard to the pronunciation of Egyptian. Unfortunately this perceived accuracy is debatable. Moreover, the systems reflect only the theoretical pronunciation of Middle Egyptian and not the older and later phases of the language, which are themselves to be transliterated with the same system.

Source Wikipedia.

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

If we can know how anglized the demotic, first is use International phonetic Alphabet , where Latin is default alphabet or standard .

http://www.langsci.ucl.ac.uk/ipa/

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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Here's a book that has a transcriptions of Egyptian Hieroglyphics. The e-book itself is only $8, but even the preview seems useful. I don't know whether all or most of the transcriptions are when the Demotic language was spoken, but it's a great source nonetheless.

As an example, Lion.Kazen's transliteration of temple is .hw.t-ntr. The transliteration in this book has it spelled He-t for the first part of the word, which is more "pronounceable" than the transliteration.

Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=WUppj1LHdJ4C&pg=PR6&dq=temple&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LjuKUu7mCIKiyAGmw4H4Dg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=temple&f=false

Edited by SDM
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Some other units here and there are also a bit confusing like the Spartiate which should be either Spartan in English or Spartiatis in Greek.

In Sparta there were different classes.

(1)The Spartiates (Greek: Σπαρτιάται, "Spartans") were the males of Sparta known to the Spartans as "peers" or "men of equal status" Spartiates were exempt from manual labor, and controlled the government of the state. Spartiate men were expected to prepare constantly for military conflict.

(2)The Perioikoi, literally "dwellers around," inhabitants of outlying towns who carried out most of the trade and commerce of the city, since Spartiates were forbidden from engaging in commercial activity.

(3)The helots, enslaved populations tied to the land and over whom the Spartan state claimed ownership. In the late 5th century BC and later, a new class, the neodamodeis (lit. 'new' damos dwellers), arose. It seems to have been composed of liberated helots.

(4)There were also the hypomeiones (lit. inferiors), men who were probably, although not certainly, Spartiates who had lost social rank.

source: Wikipedia

Edited by greycat

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Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, but I've been super busy with work and stuff

I just wanted to weigh in on the discussion on the proper way to transliterate Ancient Egyptian-- there are a few schools of thought on this: since we don't exactly know how Egyptian sounded, we generally guess which vowels went where, due to clues from Coptic and other related languages... for the case of hw.t-ntr Lion's transliteration is the generally accepted one... there should be a dot under the h though...

Although having demotic as the transliterated language would be nice, I haven't been able to find a good transliteration system for the demotic script... hieroglyphs are much easier to do! I say we just stick with something relatively easy to transliterate for now, and later we'll try to adapt our transliterations to reflect the demotic pronunciations...

for a guide on transliteration i'd suggest James Allen's Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs or Collier and Manley's How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs: A Step-by-Step Guide to Teach Yourself, Revised Edition

Those are what I'm using to teach myself Egyptian... on that note, if you want help with transliteration, just message me... I'm going to try to be around here more often!

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Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, but I've been super busy with work and stuff

I just wanted to weigh in on the discussion on the proper way to transliterate Ancient Egyptian-- there are a few schools of thought on this: since we don't exactly know how Egyptian sounded, we generally guess which vowels went where, due to clues from Coptic and other related languages... for the case of hw.t-ntr Lion's transliteration is the generally accepted one... there should be a dot under the h though...

Although having demotic as the transliterated language would be nice, I haven't been able to find a good transliteration system for the demotic script... hieroglyphs are much easier to do! I say we just stick with something relatively easy to transliterate for now, and later we'll try to adapt our transliterations to reflect the demotic pronunciations...

for a guide on transliteration i'd suggest James Allen's Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs or Collier and Manley's How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs: A Step-by-Step Guide to Teach Yourself, Revised Edition

Those are what I'm using to teach myself Egyptian... on that note, if you want help with transliteration, just message me... I'm going to try to be around here more often!

Welcome back to the Forum. We need egyptian names for natives building in Ptolemaic Faction.

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