Migration of Hunt on 0ad maps- what do you think?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

In 0ad all herds of Animals are static.

I was hiking yesterday and thought what if a map or some maps could have a migration of huntable animals from one side of the map to the other at a time interval. For 1v1s it would go from one side to the other across the middle of the map. For TGs it would go across between the two teams. Every 5 minutes the herd comes back but no new animals are generated, (it saves the number from the last migration).

Tell me what you think of the idea. I think it would be awesome for gameplay and visuals, but probably not a mainstream feature of most games of 0ad.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Honestly, I thought it wasn't that interesting of a feature in AOE3 to make it a default behavior. The migration was always too subtle to notice before all the animals were hunted to extinction. 

If anything, in 0 A.D. I find it a bit annoying that herd animals tend to "average out" their pathing and end up all spaced apart across the map. I think they should wander, but stay within a certain distance from either each other, or from the coordinates they were placed.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Perhaps I did not elaborate enough. I actually never noticed the migration in AoE3. I was thinking the animals are not even on the map for the first x minutes, then like 50 bison type animals spawn in from one edge and go across the map and then disappear off the edge for another interval. They would move as a group in a straight line with no stopping, so if players want to hunt they need to do it while the migration is happening. I would think this can exist alongside the current hunt behavior.

Edited September 4, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[Player of 0AD]

We dont need this. When I build a farmstead near animals I don't want them to run away. When I scout and see that I've hunt, so I can make a strategy based on that I don't want the hunt run away. Just make a mod?

[Ceres]

12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

If anything, in 0 A.D. I find it a bit annoying that herd animals tend to "average out" their pathing and end up all spaced apart across the map. I think they should wander, but stay within a certain distance from either each other, or from the coordinates they were placed.

I agree. Here a kind of "rubberband effect" would be positive - not they should follow the players but follow each other. What would this mean for maps that have animals scattered all over, though? Should they find each other? I refer to animals of the same type.

[Stan`]

@Freagarach worked on some herding beahvior at some point.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Ok perhaps the best way to explain it is like the Gaia groups that are sent on maps like Danubius. The animals would not be running away from you already and they would be walking in a predictable path that you would already know. I don’t think hunting this would be very challenging, what will be challenging is the timing of the hunt and the potential early map control battles that could result from it. Keep in mind this idea is not meant to replace the existing hunting.

I agree that rubber-banding effect would be nice to keep the static herds (already in 0ad) together. 

[LienRag]

Very interesting idea if done right...

The concept is that all players would get a chance at hunting these animals, provided they anticipate their movement.

It also provides for early-game interaction as denying the enemy access to this food resource becomes an interesting strategy.

There is an important balance to achieve though :

1 - There should be enough animals that one player cannot kill them all before they leave his vicinity (except with huge amounts of cavalry), and not that much that they become the main food resource in the game nor that it doesn't matter what the enemy does (I mean, if whatever number the enemy kill you still have more animals that you can use when they reach your vicinity, then it's a gigantic tap of food for everyone, not the object of strategic conflict).
That probably means that these animals should have good food value (200 at least) but also good hit points and reasonable armour (thick hide).

2 - These animal herds should avoid any players' territory (maybe run through it if they don't have any way outside of it) so that it's not possible to corral them in a closed area (which would assure the player succeeding in that endeavour a ginormous and unbalanced amount of food). Maybe have a "stampede" behaviour that allows them to destroy palisades when cornered, and maybe even to kill themselves (spoiling their food) against stone walls if they cannot escape otherwise.

3 - Their speed should be lower than cavalry so that they can be hunted, but carefully adjusted : a player spotting them should have time to exploit at least part of the herd, but the herd should also cross to the other parts of the map quickly enough that other players get a shot at them.

4 - Their AI behaviour should also be carefully crafted, so that it's possible to isolate (and maybe corral) some animals from the herd, without being able to divert the herd entirely from its itinerary.

5 - Their path (if they enter the map at a point and leave it at another) should be predictable enough that players can integrate them into their strategy, but with enough variation that it's not possible to surround them without putting enormous numbers of cavalry to the task.
Their time schedule should also get some variation so it's a "keep prepared" situation rather than a "appointment" one.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We need more interaction with the environment. 

 

Even some animal sexual reproduction, Not in an obvious graphical way, as in EE if they are in a herd to reproduce and generate babies. But that the herd does not exceed a couple of individuals. The same bushes  That they do not die completely and bear fruit.

[LienRag]

On 30/09/2021 at 7:52 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

But that the herd does not exceed a couple of individuals.

????

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 minute ago, LienRag said:

????

Check empire Earth I II.

They have herds that are predefined, reproduce, but do not exceed a certain number.

[LienRag]

OK.

But "a certain number" should certainly be more than "a couple individuals" if the dynamic is to be interesting.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, LienRag said:

OK.

But "a certain number" should certainly be more than "a couple individuals" if the dynamic is to be interesting.

Depends on the species.

[LienRag]

I disagree.

The size of the herd may depend on the species, but even with Elephants and Giraffes it should be more than "a couple individuals".

Else you force the player to keep micro-managing the herd (killing the third animal as soon as it is beneficial, in order to allow the spawning of a new one).

Edited April 29, 2023 by LienRag

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, LienRag said:

Else you force the player to keep micro-managing the herd (killing the third animal as soon as it is beneficial, in order to allow the spawning of a new one).

This is how it works in Empire Earth. If you finish with all of them you will have no more hunting source (at least in that area).

Even your enemy takes the time to kill these animals to leave you without a hunt.

 

 

 

[Palaiologos]

On 26/09/2021 at 9:36 AM, LienRag said:

Maybe have a "stampede" behaviour that allows them to destroy palisades when cornered, and maybe even to kill themselves (spoiling their food) against stone walls if they cannot escape otherwise.

Great ideas.