===[COMMITTED]=== Celtic Unit Helmets

[Imarok]

On 1/19/2019 at 3:33 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

So, to assign these to the unit actors, I think each helmet should be listed and their provenance detailed, then they can be assigned accordingly. KnowwhatImean (unless there is already a thread like this that I missed)? Kind of like this:

celt_helmet_agris: Western France, 350 BC. I suggest for the Gallic hero Brennus. His current Waterloo helmet should probably go to a Britons hero. 

celt_helmet_berru: Central Europe (Austria) Late Hallstatt (500 BC). Uncertain that this can be used. Bueller? Bueller? 

celt_helmet_ciumesti: Eastern Europe (Romania), Mid-La Tene. Elite unit?

celt_helmet_ciumesti_raven: Eastern Europe (Romania), Mid-La Tene. Gallic hero Viridomarus. 

celt_helmet_classic_coolus: Southern France? Mid-Late La Tene? Gallic Champion Infantry? Can have some plumed variants?

celt_helmet_coolus: France, Northern Italy. Late La Tene. Gallic Spear Infantry?

celt_helmet_marne: Northeast France. Time period? Unit?

celt_helmet_montefortino: Southern France, Northern Italy. Late La Tene. Unit?

celt_helmet_peaked: Britain, early Empire. Perhaps rename to celt_helmet_meyrick to be more precise? Britons infantry?

celt_helmet_port: France. Late La Tene. Gallic Champion Cavalry.

celt_helmet_waterloo: River Thames, Southern Britain. Mid-Late La Tene. Briton Hero? 

 

I guess it would be best to make that a wiki page 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 minutes ago, Imarok said:

I guess it would be best to make that a wiki page 

Not sure if that's necessary if all it's for is to determine what helmets to put with which actors. 

[Stan`]

Could go in the design document

[Genava55]

celt_helmet_berru: 500 to 350 BC approximately, some of them are much decorated, most not. During this period, it is expected to be a helmet of higher status, found in aristocratic burials sometimes. All of them are known exclusively in bronze.

celt_helmet_marne : Berru is in the region of Marne. It should be the same typology. Most of them were found in this region, but other were found in Europe Central, the most eastern is at Turocz in Hungary. What is called a Marne helmet is in fact a early Montefortino from Celtic tradition.

 



celt_helmet_agris: Western France, 350 BC. Very decorated helmet. For a hero like Brennos it is a good idea.

(suggestion) celt_helmet_amfreville: Northwest France, 250 BC. Very decorated helmet. For a hero like Viridomarus it is possible

(suggestion) celt_helmet_canosa: Italy, 400-300 BC. Very decorated helmet. For a hero like Brennos it is a good idea.

celt_helmet_ciumesti_raven: Eastern Europe (Romania), second half of the 3^rd century BC. For a hero like Viridomarus it is possible.

celt_helmet_montefortino: Most common helmets, general typology used by the Etruscans, the Romans, the Gauls and even some Iberians (region of Catalonia). 400 to 200 BC. The evolution of the typology is difficult and poorly done by previous researchers (too many different interpretation and naming). There are iron and bronze examples of this typology. It should be the most common helmets in the Gallic roster.

 

celt_helmet_ciumesti or celt_helmet_castelrotto: second half of the 3^rd century BC to the end of the second century BC. Late variante of the Montefortino helmet. I think it is only an iron type. The main difference is in the cheek-protection attachment. A common helmet for the gallic roster.

 

celt_helmet_port: I don't know why it is called classical coolus by Alexander. It is a helmet we found from 60 to 20 BC in France and in Switzerland with some variants in Eastern Europe. Should be a higher grade helmet. Gallic champion cavalry or infantry. Or elite version of gallic normal cavalry.

 

celt_helmet_alesia: 1st century BC. Most common iron helmets found during this century, in France and in Switzerland. The Agen type is a variant with a crest holder but Alexander added some features from the Forêt de Rouvray helmet (the wave border at the level of the cheek protection). For advanced units version?

(suggestion) celt_helmet_foret: Only three helmets of this typology are known, found in Northern France, dated to the 1st century BC. Two variants, forêt de Rouvray and forêt de Louviers. Maybe an higher grade helmet but it isn't sure. Same utilisation as the Alesia and Port types is possible.

(suggestion) celt_helmet_boe: 60-30 BC helmet in iron. Found in a rich burial of a gallic cavalryman serving the army of Rome as an auxiliary, southern France. For cavalry champion.

celt_helmet_coolus_mannheim: 1st century BC, found in France, in Germany, in Switzerland and in Italy. There are two types, the coolus which is the light version and the mannheim which is the heavy version. The latter is thought to have been developed by the Romans both the Gallic auxiliaries and for the Caesarian legions during the Gallic Wars. A coolus example was found in Britain, I suggest to use it for the Britons. To my knowledge, all the Coolus and Mannheim helmets are in bronze.

 

celt_helmet_meyrick helmet: Also known as the cap jockey helmet. The Meyrick helmet is dated from the 1st century AD, but I similar piece were found in the Balkans from the end of the 1st century BC in a Celtic related burial. Bronze helmets.

celt_helmet_waterloo: River Thames, Southern Britain. Mid-Late La Tene. For a Briton Hero definitely.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Genava55

[Alexandermb]

To continue the celtic faction Redesing - Visual Update done this helmet:

1024 texture vs 256 texture for game usage (Blender tip: Always bake the best resolution possible you can handle, because if you bake directly a 256 texture or 512 they will bake with 80% imperfections, if you can bake 2k textures and then rescale to 512 or 256 better).

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[Alexandermb]

What is the name of this helmet? @Genava55

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[Genava55]

52 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

What is the name of this helmet?

It is an unique helmet found at Tintignac, votive offering. The helmet was symbolically killed and put in a hole with carnyx and others helmets (killed as well). Thus let's call it "Tintignac". Good job by the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintignac

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Genava55

[Alexandermb]

Continue of helmets:

Boe helmet:

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And renamed the wrong names:

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@stanislas69 how do we remove or move to old public the old helmets?

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[Alexandermb]

Foret helmet:

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[Stan`]

Depends if you cloned art source or not. If you didn't you can't. Since most of the new helmets are just improved versions of the old ones you can just delete them I guess. With tortoise you can right click and delete.

[Alexandermb]

1 minute ago, stanislas69 said:

Since most of the new helmets are just improved versions of the old ones you can just delete them I guess. With tortoise you can right click and delete.

Ok then, i would need your help @Genava55 here if possible with the current celt - iberians unit using the celtic helmets because they will now be using the new ones or the new iberians.

i'f possible divide between Gaul or Brit the helmets by Infantry type.

Removed all helmet_ prefix from meshes and textures for avoid redundance >props/helmet/celt_helmet? now they are with their respective name, actors remain with their helmet prefix for easy search in atlas.

Will be uploading now the helmet fix before i remain whitout electricity 30 hours again.

[Genava55]

On 05/02/2019 at 7:49 PM, Alexandermb said:

Ok then, i would need your help @Genava55 here if possible with the current celt - iberians unit using the celtic helmets because they will now be using the new ones or the new iberians.

North iberians (Catalunya) have used Celtic type of Montefortino helmet, especially iron type:

There are native version of Montefortino helmets in Iberian burials (round points on the map), exclusively in bronze:

 

The only possibility to use others Celtic helmets is for a regional South Aquitanian unit (Iberic/Basque speaking). It is possible. For the Celtiberians, I don't know if the team want to solve this issue yet or if we just add Celtiberian merc units to the Iberians.

Source:

https://www.academia.edu/727108/_Montefortino-type_and_related_helmets_in_the_Iberian_Peninsula_a_study_in_archaeological_context_

Celtic (La Tène) items in the peninsula, squares are helmets, black circles are swords, light circles are shields and triangles are spearheads:

Source:

On 22/09/2021 at 1:04 AM, Genava55 said:

El armamento de influencia La Tène en la Península Ibérica (siglos V-I a.C.)

https://www.tdx.cat/bitstream/handle/10803/51613/tggj.pdf;jsessionid=5AC27E1F532ECC3F3BF30780903A2CB9?sequence=14

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Genava55

[Genava55]

2 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

i'f possible divide between Gaul or Brit the helmets by Infantry type.

Yeah I am trying to do something in the first post of this thread, updating the roster with basic description:

 

[Alexandermb]

@Genava55 can the rome basic infantry use this coolus variant?

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[Genava55]

2 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

@Genava55 can the rome basic infantry use this coolus variant?

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This Coolus is the Mannheim version, known to have been used by Caesarian legions and auxiliaries. Thus it is a bit out of the frame for the Polybian era. This helmet was found in Britain as well, probably a Celtic auxiliary. 

But the other Coolus type is very possibly used by Roman legionaries during the second century BC. 

[Diatryma]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

This Coolus is the Mannheim version, known to have been used by Caesarian legions and auxiliaries. Thus it is a bit out of the frame for the Polybian era. This helmet was found in Britain as well, probably a Celtic auxiliary. 

But the other Coolus type is very possibly used by Roman legionaries during the second century BC. 

greak work.

3 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

@Genava55 can the rome basic infantry use this coolus variant?

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[Alexandermb]

i liked so much the scythian brooch and the illyrian helmet ram so i wanted to do the celtic one:

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@Genava55 do you know a proper visible reference for this helmet? ive already have this ones:

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[Genava55]

It is one of the Monte Bibele helmets (there are several decorated helmets from there this is why you can find differences between the helmet patterns, Rome at War is mixing two helmets but it is not that much a problem):

 

 

A few tentative of reconstruction of different helmets here

On 8/26/2018 at 12:46 AM, Genava55 said:

Iron helmet of Monte Bibele with bronze decorations, fourth century BC:

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Genava55

[Alexandermb]

@Genava55 good enough? did this quick mesh (WIP) for the side decoration:

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[Genava55]

2 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

@Genava55 good enough? did this quick mesh (WIP) for the side decoration:

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That's nice. Largely good enough.

[wackyserious]

Very intricate. Would be nice for the Gallic Champion Swordsmen. Keep it up!

[Alexandermb]

This is just the first bake, if its good enough my grandmother laptop will be gratefull:

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[Genava55]

Nice! I like it. Do you want to add the cheek protections? Tell me if you need anything.

[Alexandermb]

2 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Nice! I like it. Do you want to add the cheek protections? Tell me if you need anything.

Already done, i baked it earlier this morning

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On Gaul champion:

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[Alexandermb]

will have to do a patch for reduce the redundancy of helmets/celt_helmet just like hellenic and roman helmets.

helmet should have only the faction prefix, in this case celtic or "celt" like phrygian, corinthian, thracian helmets use the hellenic "hele" prefix.