===[TASK]=== Kushite Architecture revision

[Sundiata]

@LordGood You have done an amazing job with the Kushite architecture, and it's basically good to go. But if you have time, and since we're reaching new heights in historicity with this faction, I wanted to add my final list of suggestions for the buildings as well. I'll just discuss one building per post, and try to keep it as clear as possible. 

Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 1, the CC: Please don't shoot me : ) 

Ok, so for the CC, I have no suggestions for the building itself, it's just perfect! One thing that bothers me is the way the steps are only at the front and don't go around the sides. Many of their important monuments were built on raised podiums (only a meter, maybe two high), and your steps represent that very well, if they go round the sides as well (not necessary for the back), and connect to that lonely little wall segment. Of all the buildings in the set, the CC is the best candidate for a finishing with white lime-plaster. Other buildings could also have white plaster, but the CC needs it in my opinion.  Houses and other buildings covered with white lime-plaster are a sign of wealth. Also, most of the ruins of the palaces clearly indicate them being plastered white (and sometimes even coloured brightly). Lastly, the lion-statues  . Lion statues are a lot more common than I originally realised (like really common), and lined the front of palaces, lion temples and even some townhouses had smaller versions lining their facades or flanking an entrance. A seated (upright) lion statue is a prop that should be used for the CC, lion temple, and even the harbour would look fantastic with a pair of them facing the water on either side of the structure. (I'm surprised that these people haven't been dubbed "The Lion Kingdom"...)

So:

• Steps should go around the sides as well
• white plaster finish
• A row of Lion statue for the facade 

Please forgive my butchering of your model... Here's an amateuristic mock-up (colours all messed up, but you get the picture..): 

That's an actual lion statue from Naqa, if you're wondering 

 

My favourite lion statue from Jebel Barkal (the palaces there had many lion statues lining their outsides): 

 

I hope this public domain white plaster texture will come in handy:

 

[LordGood]

A plastered CC might look a bit odd among all the warmer buildings, but that would be as easy as copying and editing the texture pack and assigning it to the CC. Stairs should be easy enough too.

If you wanted to copy and edit the texpack as you see fit, feel free to do so

Might have to wait on that lion, that requires me doing some sculpting, hoh boy! maybe. are they painted lions?

[LordGood]

majestic blob creature

[Sundiata]

@LordGood, I like blob the lion  

Don't forget his lower legs, though, that poor amputee... A nice feature to have would be that semicircular stylised mane in the front, followed by that rectangular section covering his chest (kind of like a baby bib). Hieroglyphic inscriptions (specifically a double cartouche) go on the rectangular part. As for colour, I don't know, probably they were, but plain white/beige is fine for me..

1 hour ago, LordGood said:

A plastered CC might look a bit odd among all the warmer buildings, but that would be as easy as copying and editing the texture pack and assigning it to the CC

It would be nice to see a mix of white and beige/brown plaster in the common houses as well.

1 hour ago, LordGood said:

If you wanted to copy and edit the texpack as you see fit, feel free to do so

I'll play with the texture very soon.  

[Stan`]

Be warry though that changing the texture pack might mean having to change every single building.

[LordGood]

It should be a whole new file.

[Sundiata]

@LordGood

Another nice lion example, and a public domain cartouches of King Anlamani and Tanwetamani:

Spoiler

The double cartouche is visible, but I guess it's too small to actually show up in game. Could of course enlarge it, but don't know if it would look credible

 

Just for your information, almost everything in the mfa archives is public domain  

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Sundiata

[Sundiata]

Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 2, houses:

@LordGood

This is not so much a nitpick, but a rather large task. The reason why I think it could be a valuable change is because it can benefit another faction as well: the Ptolemies. 

We should ideally have a flat roof variant for the common houses for the Kushites. "Egyptian" style regular housing was just as common as those vaulted Nubian houses, and often coexist, even in the same building. It would create a more organic domestic look. Currently there's an over saturation of Nubian vaults, but I like how they're used in the other structures and they're fantastic on the current houses (I actually don't want any variant to be removed), it just needs to be nuanced with the addition of some flat roofed models (like 50/50). Mixing in white textures for some of the variants would also be more historical and, add even more nuance, and help blending in a white CC better.

The reason why this would benefit the Ptolemies is that I think they could/should use the same model for their own Egyptian house variants. Unlike the current Kushite houses, the Ptolemaic ones are not very historical, and and I've read people complain about their "architecture" in the youtube comment sections, and even in some of the video's themselves. Some people also say that 0AD is an Age of Mythology clone (obviously not), but especially the Ptolemies bring up this sentiment, and I've come to understand why:

Age of Mythology

 

0AD

...

 

They're basically the same models, with minor variations and a different texture. The fact that this is not based on Ancient Egyptian housing, but rather on the stereotype of Ancient Egyptian houses (inward slanting walls??), makes it even worse.. Especially for a historical game like 0AD. 

So, I ask for:

• Flat roofed Egyptian style variants for Kushite houses to add nuance (some white and some earthy textures)
• Use the same model to replace the Egyptian variants for Ptolemaic houses (with Ptol textures of course) 

This would also be good to illustrate the common ancient Egyptian cultural substrate that runs through both Ptolemaic and Kushite architecture. Similar to how the Hellenic civs use similar type housing. They're both Nile-Valley cultures... I think Ptolemies and Kushites are more than unique enough to merit at least one shared house-variant. 

Kushite flat roofed house from Al Meragh

 

A whole lot more accurate and historical Egyptian houses as inspiration:

Spoiler

Notice how the earthy colours mix well with the white colours

 

Multi-storied apartment blocks were actually common in Ptolemaic Egypt (and Kush)

 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Sundiata

[LordGood]

 I'm going to take an ax to the ptolemies's architecture eventually. The white CC I imagine would be fine but with houses the risk of muddying form and function. Flat roofs should be easy enough to integrate if handled tactfully 

[Sundiata]

14 minutes ago, LordGood said:

I'm going to take an ax to the ptolemies's architecture eventually. The white CC I imagine would be fine but with houses the risk of muddying form and function. Flat roofs should be easy enough to integrate if handled tactfully

It's completely in your hands  

[Sundiata]

Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 3, the dock

@LordGood, I really like the dock. There's only one suggestion I have for this one, and once again it doesn't pertain to the building itself, but to the quay. One romantic element of Nile Valley culture is the scene of a royal, or a humble servant moving down a handful of stone steps leading directly in to the Nile, to fetch water, or bathe or whatever... Those stone steps are also where a boat would moor, and people could descend without getting totally soaked. The stone construction wouldn't easily wash away during the annual floods either. Since you modelled those lovely Lions, you could also add two of them, one on each corner facing the Nile, like the Ibis statues in my mock-up (shamelessly copy pasting another artists' quay). It's more of a stylistic choice, but it would fit the whole Nile Valley theme very well. 

 

 

 

It would also be lovely if you could add the lion statues to the Lion temple. Two of them, flanking the doorway, facing each other:

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Sundiata

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Really awesome nitpicks, Sundiata. Those would be some nice additions indeed. I especially like the dock mockup.

Edited February 5, 2018 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Stan`]

@LordGood what's the current time you have ?
The dock also have some weird flickering in the back.

 

[Sundiata]

@stanislas69 & @Alexandermb, I see you discussing the ibis statues for the dock. Those are an Egyptian example, so perhaps a Kushite example would be a more appropriate primary reference to use, if you get around to it:

I liked this Sun Ape from Kawa a lot. It's the god Thot, disguised as a baboon. Very appropriate, as the Ibis statues also represent Thot  

[Alexandermb]

17 hours ago, Sundiata said:

@stanislas69 & @Alexandermb, I see you discussing the ibis statues for the dock. Those are an Egyptian example, so perhaps a Kushite example would be a more appropriate primary reference to use, if you get around to it:

I liked this Sun Ape from Kawa a lot. It's the god Thot, disguised as a baboon. Very appropriate, as the Ibis statues also represent Thot  

so the statue left is the long legs tucan, or cesar? (or both)

[Stan`]

Why not both ?

[Sundiata]

9 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

long legs tucan, or cesar?

lol... Either one is ok, no need for both...

 

I you feel the insatiable thirst to model more statues, the sitting ram statues for the front of the Amun temple (like the lions for the Lion temple) would be the cherry on the icing of the cake:

Spoiler

 

[Alexandermb]

so, i imported the first statue to see how poly's it have and found that it is an full object instead a prop, so should i move the statue to the root and make the civ have empties prop points for the statue in 4 places when i finish the other ones?

[Alexandermb]

6 hours ago, Sundiata said:

lol... Either one is ok, no need for both...

 

I you feel the insatiable thirst to model more statues, the sitting ram statues for the front of the Amun temple (like the lions for the Lion temple) would be the cherry on the icing of the cake:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Reminder for later: Beheaded statue for health 25%/50% 

[Stan`]

For statues. You can make props. Destruction is fine but it's secondary as it might look weird as the cc doesn't decay

[Alexandermb]

ok so i got this, both the high poly and low poly, but the low poly claws don't want to get normalized any idea why ? @LordGood 

@Sundiata this has a good looking for the kushites?

Edited February 7, 2018 by Alexandermb

[Stan`]

Try changing the bias value or try with xnormals (It's a great piece of software.)

[Alexandermb]

Fixed dividing the claws faces

  

[Sundiata]

44 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

@Sundiata this has a good looking for the kushites?

Very good! Impressive...

Edited February 7, 2018 by Sundiata

[Alexandermb]

9 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

Very good! Impressive...

Should i leave the texture in your hands or i try to render it whit the white texture you posted above?