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===[TASK]=== Kushite Architecture revision


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@LordGood You have done an amazing job with the Kushite architecture, and it's basically good to go. But if you have time, and since we're reaching new heights in historicity with this faction, I wanted to add my final list of suggestions for the buildings as well. I'll just discuss one building per post, and try to keep it as clear as possible. 

Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 1, the CC: Please don't shoot me : ) 

Ok, so for the CC, I have no suggestions for the building itself, it's just perfect! One thing that bothers me is the way the steps are only at the front and don't go around the sides. Many of their important monuments were built on raised podiums (only a meter, maybe two high), and your steps represent that very well, if they go round the sides as well (not necessary for the back), and connect to that lonely little wall segment. Of all the buildings in the set, the CC is the best candidate for a finishing with white lime-plaster. Other buildings could also have white plaster, but the CC needs it in my opinion.  Houses and other buildings covered with white lime-plaster are a sign of wealth. Also, most of the ruins of the palaces clearly indicate them being plastered white (and sometimes even coloured brightly). Lastly, the lion-statues :) . Lion statues are a lot more common than I originally realised (like really common), and lined the front of palaces, lion temples and even some townhouses had smaller versions lining their facades or flanking an entrance. A seated (upright) lion statue is a prop that should be used for the CC, lion temple, and even the harbour would look fantastic with a pair of them facing the water on either side of the structure. (I'm surprised that these people haven't been dubbed "The Lion Kingdom"...)

So:

  • Steps should go around the sides as well
  • white plaster finish
  • A row of Lion statue for the facade 

Please forgive my butchering of your model... Here's an amateuristic mock-up (colours all messed up, but you get the picture..): 

5a6c7dfc616d3_Kushiteccsuggestions.thumb.jpg.f7baac6da468a856bf50104f407e3413.jpg

That's an actual lion statue from Naqa, if you're wondering :D

5a6c7e9ecfff6_Mockupcomparison.thumb.jpg.70fd3ade3a22170dd555fbeab415a1b9.jpg

 

My favourite lion statue from Jebel Barkal (the palaces there had many lion statues lining their outsides): 

5a6c7fa61a7dd_KingdomofKushKushitelionstatuesfromgebeljebelbarkalnapata.thumb.jpg.61009dec78d6b072574346bce9ff10fd.jpg

 

I hope this public domain white plaster texture will come in handy:

5a6c83abd86d7_whitelimeplastertexturekush.thumb.png.9967b99897cd058a0891f44de024d301.png

 

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A plastered CC might look a bit odd among all the warmer buildings, but that would be as easy as copying and editing the texture pack and assigning it to the CC. Stairs should be easy enough too.

If you wanted to copy and edit the texpack as you see fit, feel free to do so

Might have to wait on that lion, that requires me doing some sculpting, hoh boy! maybe. are they painted lions?

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@LordGood, I like blob the lion :) 

Don't forget his lower legs, though, that poor amputee... A nice feature to have would be that semicircular stylised mane in the front, followed by that rectangular section covering his chest (kind of like a baby bib). Hieroglyphic inscriptions (specifically a double cartouche) go on the rectangular part. As for colour, I don't know, probably they were, but plain white/beige is fine for me..

1 hour ago, LordGood said:

A plastered CC might look a bit odd among all the warmer buildings, but that would be as easy as copying and editing the texture pack and assigning it to the CC

It would be nice to see a mix of white and beige/brown plaster in the common houses as well.

1 hour ago, LordGood said:

If you wanted to copy and edit the texpack as you see fit, feel free to do so

I'll play with the texture very soon. :) 

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@LordGood

Another nice lion example, and a public domain cartouches of King Anlamani and Tanwetamani:

Spoiler

The double cartouche is visible, but I guess it's too small to actually show up in game. Could of course enlarge it, but don't know if it would look credible

5a6d0c9f44adc_lionstatuebasakush.thumb.jpg.75a0bb1e496720e3a1a65d28c41dda23.jpg

 

Just for your information, almost everything in the mfa archives is public domain :):):) 

5a6d0c9833acf_KingAnlamanifaiencecartouche.thumb.png.deaa54077027a015b49f04c94f164d78.png

5a6d10f1938ba_cartoucheofkingtanwetamanikushkushite.jpg.12180191a829a8c76d124ecdc5bedd1f.jpg

 

Edited by Sundiata
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Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 2, houses:

@LordGood

This is not so much a nitpick, but a rather large task. The reason why I think it could be a valuable change is because it can benefit another faction as well: the Ptolemies. 

We should ideally have a flat roof variant for the common houses for the Kushites. "Egyptian" style regular housing was just as common as those vaulted Nubian houses, and often coexist, even in the same building. It would create a more organic domestic look. Currently there's an over saturation of Nubian vaults, but I like how they're used in the other structures and they're fantastic on the current houses (I actually don't want any variant to be removed), it just needs to be nuanced with the addition of some flat roofed models (like 50/50). Mixing in white textures for some of the variants would also be more historical and, add even more nuance, and help blending in a white CC better.

The reason why this would benefit the Ptolemies is that I think they could/should use the same model for their own Egyptian house variants. Unlike the current Kushite houses, the Ptolemaic ones are not very historical, and and I've read people complain about their "architecture" in the youtube comment sections, and even in some of the video's themselves. Some people also say that 0AD is an Age of Mythology clone (obviously not), but especially the Ptolemies bring up this sentiment, and I've come to understand why:

Age of Mythology

5a6e151ac22df_AOMegypthouses.jpg.509c1ef7331bf5c39db0a4e2716fd9fe.jpg

 

0AD

5a6e151fe0685_0adptolemieshousing.thumb.jpg.6b38fbab16161a5dc285d7178e29e42b.jpg

...

5a6e15a8bf038_ageofmythology0adegyptianmodels.thumb.jpg.73e5f2c417f394d241301e72aae94f63.jpg

 

They're basically the same models, with minor variations and a different texture. The fact that this is not based on Ancient Egyptian housing, but rather on the stereotype of Ancient Egyptian houses (inward slanting walls??), makes it even worse.. Especially for a historical game like 0AD. 

So, I ask for:

  • Flat roofed Egyptian style variants for Kushite houses to add nuance (some white and some earthy textures)
  • Use the same model to replace the Egyptian variants for Ptolemaic houses (with Ptol textures of course) 

This would also be good to illustrate the common ancient Egyptian cultural substrate that runs through both Ptolemaic and Kushite architecture. Similar to how the Hellenic civs use similar type housing. They're both Nile-Valley cultures... I think Ptolemies and Kushites are more than unique enough to merit at least one shared house-variant. 

Kushite flat roofed house from Al Meragh

5a6e1782350f2_KingdomofKushKushitedomesticresidencedoublehouseatAlMeraghAM600exterior.thumb.jpg.977d3466c0e71b9902c220c392943fb8.jpg

 

A whole lot more accurate and historical Egyptian houses as inspiration:

Spoiler

Notice how the earthy colours mix well with the white colours

7ee3ff08e9684ede8f3e83dfd70dea0e.thumb.jpg.e678ad237bb08ae123b8f76e2a9bc56b.jpg

5.thumb.jpg.66d6aafb2c97540197a0c83f079ab1ef.jpg

aa95a15870a20ea5.jpg.e4d520afcfe6a606075dae884b72a8a9.jpg

craftworkers-2-with-labels.thumb.jpg.495cab5ada157e8aad9c9e614fed8efd.jpg

amarnatown10.jpg.8490a1816335d0225745b6dabab38d7b.jpg

decor-ancient-egyptian-houses-rich-and-poor-and-ancient-egyptian-homes-crystalinks-9.jpg.8ac069a10e2986da6a890450ee453d44.jpg

403eb03377705173b623521e75190805.jpg.32ec4e11a0c05b4eb64bc7938f4441f2.jpg

sezcasa.thumb.jpg.538e92a53d7fecce29d5d44a19e568a3.jpg

houseofimportantmilitaryofficerRamose.jpg.441ac97b2d81f93e39a4533523a1a2e0.jpg

deir_el_medina_villaggio_operai.thumb.jpg.050a17490d76c0e13745a09411e24f27.jpg

egypte-deir-el-medineh-jc-golvin.thumb.jpg.113fa309cf55c452421610fd7364d34b.jpg

 

Multi-storied apartment blocks were actually common in Ptolemaic Egypt (and Kush)

yannick-dubeau-ancient-egyptian-house-reconstitution-amarna-period.thumb.jpg.1d2066cb8059cc1d4913462cdf6a5d04.jpg

house3f.jpg.bc3ec530d6490e11b23891b00ec09bf3.jpg

5a70487b5bd3f_RPM_gypten_003.thumb.jpg.580e2bf6de6a3bcab031ccdc87392426.jpg

1a0d863604bdcee33a2bda9f994ec5d1.jpg.3aece80af91ff64cc6801810db3f40ba.jpg

egypthouse-300x279.jpg.21dd15f43550308784638a8674b2d4f1.jpg

1780ac652a3afaf087c956aa6c846162--egyptian-art-ancient-egypt-architecture.jpg.69a0aed7f8d33b3b07f618d3bd93b6b5.jpg

 

 

Edited by Sundiata
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14 minutes ago, LordGood said:

I'm going to take an ax to the ptolemies's architecture eventually. The white CC I imagine would be fine but with houses the risk of muddying form and function. Flat roofs should be easy enough to integrate if handled tactfully

It's completely in your hands :) 

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Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 3, the dock

@LordGood, I really like the dock. There's only one suggestion I have for this one, and once again it doesn't pertain to the building itself, but to the quay. One romantic element of Nile Valley culture is the scene of a royal, or a humble servant moving down a handful of stone steps leading directly in to the Nile, to fetch water, or bathe or whatever... Those stone steps are also where a boat would moor, and people could descend without getting totally soaked. The stone construction wouldn't easily wash away during the annual floods either. Since you modelled those lovely Lions, you could also add two of them, one on each corner facing the Nile, like the Ibis statues in my mock-up (shamelessly copy pasting another artists' quay). It's more of a stylistic choice, but it would fit the whole Nile Valley theme very well. 

5a7850775429e_Kingdomofkushkushitedocksuggestionmockup.thumb.jpg.b9c1a21f558f9b2becba87f2e4a00068.jpg

 

5a78507f9e99e_Kushitedocsuggestioncomparisson.thumb.jpg.38e155b22b171792b4ed53d92e3a3c67.jpg

 

 

It would also be lovely if you could add the lion statues to the Lion temple. Two of them, flanking the doorway, facing each other:

5a785249450e9_ApedemaktemplemusawwaratesSufra3dcenturyBCELionstatuedetails.thumb.jpg.46a3968d9c4e2028526572478865bd95.jpg

 

Edited by Sundiata
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@stanislas69 & @Alexandermb, I see you discussing the ibis statues for the dock. Those are an Egyptian example, so perhaps a Kushite example would be a more appropriate primary reference to use, if you get around to it:

I liked this Sun Ape from Kawa a lot. It's the god Thot, disguised as a baboon. Very appropriate, as the Ibis statues also represent Thot :) 

5a796a1f381c7_KushiteBaboonsunapeworshippingtherisingsunbytaharqaattempleofamuninkawakingdomofkush25THdynastyb.thumb.jpg.83eeb95fcdc4e75685cf5241bdf4117e.jpg

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17 hours ago, Sundiata said:

@stanislas69 & @Alexandermb, I see you discussing the ibis statues for the dock. Those are an Egyptian example, so perhaps a Kushite example would be a more appropriate primary reference to use, if you get around to it:

I liked this Sun Ape from Kawa a lot. It's the god Thot, disguised as a baboon. Very appropriate, as the Ibis statues also represent Thot :) 

5a796a1f381c7_KushiteBaboonsunapeworshippingtherisingsunbytaharqaattempleofamuninkawakingdomofkush25THdynastyb.thumb.jpg.83eeb95fcdc4e75685cf5241bdf4117e.jpg

so the statue left is the long legs tucan, or cesar? (or both)

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9 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

long legs tucan, or cesar?

lol... Either one is ok, no need for both...

 

I you feel the insatiable thirst to model more statues, the sitting ram statues for the front of the Amun temple (like the lions for the Lion temple) would be the cherry on the icing of the cake:

Spoiler

5a7ae5113e566_KingdomofKushKushiteramsliningprocessionalavenueinfronttheAmuntempleinNaqa.thumb.jpg.52eab9cd1fc6cae63d5893787cc53a3a.jpg

5a7ae57388b9c_KingdomofKushkushiteramprocessionatamuntempleinnaqa.thumb.jpg.d5709e3ee7d1a2c8342ad926b1c7f472.jpg

e2ae05fa83eef3fe170c5bb9b64486b7--egyptian-beauty-egyptian-art.jpg.012fcfa98ff64e92d94f45b5f7c43f35.jpg

5a7ae589787e7_KingdomofKushKushiteramstatuesfromvariousamuntemples.thumb.jpg.9c01399ca918d936a6d8ddd04b7f9e21.jpg

 

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6 hours ago, Sundiata said:

lol... Either one is ok, no need for both...

 

I you feel the insatiable thirst to model more statues, the sitting ram statues for the front of the Amun temple (like the lions for the Lion temple) would be the cherry on the icing of the cake:

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5a7ae5113e566_KingdomofKushKushiteramsliningprocessionalavenueinfronttheAmuntempleinNaqa.thumb.jpg.52eab9cd1fc6cae63d5893787cc53a3a.jpg

 

 

 

 

Reminder for later: Beheaded statue for health 25%/50% 

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