Planting trees

[vlad1777d]

Hello dear friends.

After some time in game all trees are ended.
It was good to add ability to plant new trees, for example, fruit trees for gardens.
Then we could or left them for fruits, or to cut them off if we need wood, also we could use fruits for planting new trees.

Best regards,
Vladislav

[LordGood]

Keep it to one topic please.

[fcxSanya]

Hi and welcome to the forums,
trees plantation/regeneration was previously discussed here:

It's not planned to be included into the game, but may be done via a mod (if someone will be interested to implement it).

[vlad1777d]

Thank you, I'll read that topic =)

[Lion.Kanzen]

Can be nice implemented as upgrade for farms, but only with some kind plantations like olive oil, vine and generates extra incoming from trading.

[vlad1777d]

As for me, I would divide food to several parts: -fruits, -meat, etc.

Each food can be received from different source. Current food indicator will display general amount of all food, when you press on it, there would appear popup menu with displayed every type of food with it's amount.

Just for more interest in game.

Because current game is really good, but it's a little boring. I cannot play it often.

Edited October 26, 2016 by vlad1777d

[fcxSanya]

51 minutes ago, vlad1777d said:

As for me, I would divide food to several parts: -fruits, -meat, etc.

It's already divided to fish, fruit, grain, meat and milk, also there is a "vegetarian ratio" counter in the summary. 

[vlad1777d]

1 minute ago, fcxSanya said:

It's already divided to fish, fruit, grain, meat and milk, also there is a "vegetarian ratio" counter in the summary. 

It's great. As I understood, this update is not in released build?

[fcxSanya]

29 minutes ago, vlad1777d said:

It's great. As I understood, this update is not in released build?

It is, vegeratian ratio is there since the initial summary screen implementation (see [1]), which was first released in Alpha 3, and the resource subtypes themselves were implemented at least since December 2005: [2], so they are present in every release starting from Pre-Alpha 1.

[vlad1777d]

3 hours ago, fcxSanya said:

It is, vegeratian ratio is there since the initial summary screen implementation (see [1]), which was first released in Alpha 3, and the resource subtypes themselves were implemented at least since December 2005:

 

Thank you. But I cannot find them. Where to find resource subtypes?

Edited October 26, 2016 by vlad1777d

[fcxSanya]

3 hours ago, vlad1777d said:

But I cannot find them. Where to find resource subtypes?

They are stated in the simulation templates like one I linked above (current version has a bit different structure, but resource subtype is still there: [1]), during the game you can see them via gather cursors (a couple of cherries for fruits, a slice of meat for meat etc.), gameplay-wise this affects gathering rate, for example women are better at fruit-gathering and farming, while cavalry is better at meat-gathering. As soon as resources are gathered they are combined by main types (food, wood, metal, stone) since there is no need to distinguish subtypes anymore, the only stat you can see for this stage is the aforementioned vegeratian ratio.

[Palaxin]

I know two games with tree regeneration:

• Settlers: a dedicated forester replants tree saplings which grow big after some time (perhaps 3-5 minutes)
• Stronghold Crusader: trees naturally spawn other trees in their vicinity, if the tree density is below a certain threshold (otherwise trees disappear)

As proposed by @Lion.Kanzen I think the best implementation for 0 A.D. or a 0 A.D. mod, respectively, would be a farm-like field of saplings. An initial seeding requires some workers "building" the "forest structure". However, it requires some additional time until the trees are grown and can be harvested.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Palaxin

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

This an olive plantation, can work generating incoming or have a global boost for trading income. Can work like age of empires plantation.

http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Plantation

Spoiler

The Plantation is a building in Age of Empires III where commercial crops are grown, producing coin for the civilization that owns it. Plantations cost 800 Wood to construct and they don't produce coin as quickly as mining, but they are infinite. They are useful for when mines run out, but they require more villagers for the same output, which is critical when producing expensive units.

Is historical accurate, romans have agricultural industry .

https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/olive-oil-basics/olive-oil-production-in-rome/23058

and can generates wood slowly, the other can be the  vine plantation, providing food and income.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

The problem with planting tree, is few civilization do this, and romans plant olive of get gardens with aesthetic proposes.

the ancient Israelites do this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_gardens?wprov=sfsi1

so the trees they planting are olive.

http://www.tbo.com/lifestyle/plant-some-ancient-history---and-a-really-tough-tree-56228

Quote

Roman Latifundiae, large agricultural estates, were quite successful in maintaining the large supply of wood that was necessary for the Roman Empire.[7] Large deforestations came with respectively after the decline of the Romans.[7] However already in the 5th century, monks in the then Byzantine Romagna on the Adriatic coast, were able to establish stone pineplantations to provide fuelwood and food.[8] This was the beginning of the massive forest mentioned by Dante Alighieri in his 1308 poem Divine Comedy.[8]

Similar sustainable formal forestry practices were developed by the Visigoths in the 7th century when, faced with the ever increasing shortage of wood, they instituted a code concerned with the preservation of oak and pine forests.[8] The use and management of many forest resources has a long history in China as well, dating back to the Han Dynasty and taking place under the landowning gentry. A similar approach was used in Japan. It was also later written about by the Ming DynastyChinese scholar Xu Guangqi (1562–1633).

In Europe, land usage rights in medieval and early modern times allowed different users to access forests and pastures. Plant litter and resin extraction were important, as pitch (resin) was essential for the caulking of ships, falking and hunting rights, firewood and building, timber gathering in wood pastures, and for grazing animals in forests. The notion of "commons" (German "Allmende") refers to the underlying traditional legal term of common land. The idea of enclosed private property came about during modern times. However, most hunting rights were retained by members of the nobility which preserved the right of the nobility to access and use common land for recreation, like fox hunting.

So romans don't have this practice.

[vlad1777d]

@Lion.Kanzen, as we learned at school, people knew about planting trees yet when they were formed.
Some of them covered from danger by walking with the herds of cows, some of them noticed, that in places where they dropped seeds, plants began to grow, so they used plants as shield from outer danger, including, self-made. [4]

In ancient Egypt, for example, gardens could pass for kilometers from one garden to another. [1]
In ancient Greece they planted trees in gardens too (at first from vine and fruit gardens, till oaks and olive trees, sycamore, cypress, palms) [2]
Garden of ancient Rome Empire were created under the influence of ancient Egyptian, Persian, and Greek gardening equipment [3]
And etc.

So gardens have to be. But another problem - that no one civilization planted forests for wood. But those civilizations, who used wood, had enough wood and without planting. There was enough trees to reproduce themselves, without humans.
Another thing - game maps. They have no such sizes, so they have reduced distances between towns in comparison with real ones. And amount of trees is reduced too. This leads to that after some time in game we feel a lack of trees, of course, we could gain wood by other ways or win or loose quicklier. But enjoyment from the game is reduced because we have bare lands.

So as we have one inaccuracy with sizes and lack of trees, we could make another one, which will solve problem with lack of trees.
In other side, civilizations could plant trees if they wanted this. As player is temporary a leader of some union, he could make such a decision. That civilizations could not use cars and phones, but they could plant trees.

 

1. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сады_в_Древнем_Египте
2. http://lektsii.org/2-3477.html
3. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сады_в_Древнем_Риме
4. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Непослушное_дитя_биосферы

Edited October 26, 2016 by vlad1777d

[GunChleoc]

If we want tree regeneration, self-seeding would be the way to go I think.

[vlad1777d]

@GunChleoc, agree, this is a good way.

I also look to planting like the other way, which for me is good too, but self-seeding is good way to solve problems with a lack of trees.

[Lion.Kanzen]

6 hours ago, GunChleoc said:

If we want tree regeneration, self-seeding would be the way to go I think.

That is better way.

[vlad1777d]

Probably, will be great to just keep trees amount same, as it was on the game start.

[Stan`]

On 10/27/2016 at 11:07 AM, GunChleoc said:

If we want tree regeneration, self-seeding would be the way to go I think.

Well i made a patch to make trees grow back resources over time

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

12 hours ago, Stan` said:

Well i made a patch to make trees grow back resources over time

@Stan` got a link?

[Stan`]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1718

[Lion.Kanzen]

my concern with planting is that I don't see people of the old age doing this for some kind of climate impact, if I finished the wood they would go somewhere else.

They were planting for aesthetic reasons and were almost in many cases first class deforesters.