Greetings

[Orpheus]

Greetings dear community,

I love open source, love to donate to open source projects and absolutely love 0 A.D. I have no doubt that in a few years 0 A.D. will become best RTS ever existed. Thank you to all contributors!!!
However, I will not feel comfortable in game until able to play with Thracians faction and their heroes like Orpheus and Spartacus. I did see there is already thread about adding thracians in game and I really support the idea. I know they started to develop centuries earlier but in 0 A.D. they still exist and get lots of attention and conspiracies from their enemies. Masters of gold minting, jewelry creation and arts they are called "the sky nation" because of their deep spirituality and astronomic knowledge. Being warlike, ferocious, and bloodthirsty people they fight vigorously when their freedom is questioned. I am well aware that greeks stole Orpheus and the entire mythology behind! Hey, no flame war here please. In the latest Hollywood movie Orpheus is played by black actor so everything is possible these days : ) Everyone can believe whatever he likes, no problem about that, and I personally read the works of several todays phd thracologists which refer only to the ancient historian sources and not the modern, manipulated writings. It is not true that they did not have own writing characters. Thracians were referred all the time by the ancient Roman and Greek historians with their tribes names called after the local region they populate. Yes, there were more than 60 tribes of thracians. Herodotus (425 BC) would write: "The Thracian people is the most numerous one of the world; the Thracians have several names, according to their specific regions, but their habits are more or less the same." (Fontes, I, 65)
The most numerous at the time after the people of todays India (more than 2 mil).
At least 7 Roman emperors came from thracian provinces and are with thrace origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Thrace_and_Dacia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracia

Images of the unbelievable thracian art in google: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=thracians+art&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=924&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisjfD2hdzMAhXHtxoKHQy5BZ0Q_AUIBigB

Some quotes from the above pages:

"
Orpheus was a legendary musician, poet, and prophet in ancient Greek religion and myth. The major stories about him are centered on his ability to charm all living things and even stones with his music, his attempt to retrieve his wife, Eurydice, from the underworld, and his death at the hands of those who could not hear his divine music. As an archetype of the inspired singer, Orpheus is one of the most significant figures in the reception of classical mythology in Western culture, portrayed or alluded in countless forms of art and popular culture including poetry, film, opera, music, and painting.

According to Apollodorus and a fragment of Pindar, Orpheus' father was Oeagrus, a Thracian king; or, according to another version of the story, the god Apollo. His mother was the muse Calliope; or, a daughter of Pierus, son of Makednos.
In Bulgarian tradition, Orpheus is said to have been born in the village of Gela close to Shiroka Luka in southern Bulgaria. Modern day Bulgaria occupies roughly the same territory as ancient Thrace. Virgil associates Orpheus with the land of the Getae (north east Danube valley) and even describes him wandering as far north as Tanais (estuary of the river Don, Ukraine)

The first historical record about the Thracians is found in the Iliad, where they are described as allies of the Trojans in the Trojan War against the Greeks.

The history of Thracian warfare spans from c. 10th century BC up to the 1st century AD in the region defined by Ancient Greek and Latin historians as Thrace. It concerns the armed conflicts of the Thracian tribes and their kingdoms in the Balkans and in the Dacian territories. Emperor Traianus conquered Dacia after two wars in the 2nd century AD. The wars finished with the occupation of the fortress of Sarmisegetusa and the death of the king Decebalus. Apart from conflicts between Thracians and neighboring nations and tribes, numerous wars were recorded among Thracian tribes too.

Thrace has been producing wine for the last 5000 years. Thracians may have had a cult for the drink, as evident from the worship of Dionysus. Ancient sources suggest that Thracians were among the best winemakers. According to some theories, the first vines in Europe were brought from the Middle East and planted in what is now Southern Bulgaria. At the beginning wine was produced along the Maritsa river and around seaports.
"

And so on. I understand that adding another faction and balancing it is lots of work but please I will help if the devs agree to make the game more accurate and fulfilled.

Other suggestions and things I like to see in game (many of them are already mentioned by other users):

1. Thracian faction.
2. The legion and army formations I saw in another thread.
3. Adding two more ages - one before 0 A.D. and one after the 3rd.
4. When I ring the alert belt the women tend to garrison military buildings which do not add more arrows. I like them to go into not military buildings and the cc only so I have more space for soldiers.
5. When random map is generated it tends to be not be entirely even for all players which is completely fine (and should be this way) but sometimes is completely uneven, for example yesterday all metal mines were in bottom half of the map and the top players lost quickly.

6. Multithreading support and the constant lags when more units are present are well known issues. I play the game with all graphic setting on low on latest Intel i7 with 16GB of RAM and still the game quickly become unplayable at later stages.
7. ...

Kindly let me know what you think about and don't judge me too harsh : ) If you like the thracians faction idea please mention it here.

Thank you for your time!

Orpheus

Edited May 15, 2016 by Orpheus

[sarcoma]

I think someone suggested adding them as mercenaries for Persia, Gaul or I don't know

[Lion.Kanzen]

They aren't adding factions for now.

[Orpheus]

1 minute ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

They aren't adding factions for now.

I hope they will do in the near future.

When prominent thracian warrior died he was buried in so called mound with his wife and horse (alive) and his weapons and jewelry. They thought he will need them in the other world. There are hundreds of mounds found so far from todays Ukraine down to Turkey.

[Stan`]

The problem with adding new factions, is balancing, research (after all we want to have the more historical background as possible) , art, we don't have much artists to tackle the work a new faction would cost. So you can turn yourself toward modding, see we already have a 500-1000AD mod period, one that goes through Ancient Egypt, and one that covers the Chinese Era during 0 A.d.

[Lion.Kanzen]

May be you want work or help with @wowgetoffyourcellphone he have a very interesting mod, with a bunch of new factions.

Delenda Est mod.

[CrazySimeon]

Bumping for your cause! Let's see more factions please!

[wackyserious]

Do check the modding section of the forums, most of the ideas about the mods are discussed there.

Mod updates/changelogs are located on https://github.com/0ADMods

Mods on the 0ADMods homepage.

It is recommended that you use the SVN version of the game, aka. developer version if you want to play or test the recent copies of the mod found on Github (with SVN, you just click on the "update game button" and you will receive the latest changes commited to the game)

Trac - Timeline (Something like a changelog for 0ad, good for keeping track of the recent game changes)

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/timeline

Recent changes and download as .zip button.

Edited May 17, 2016 by wackyserious

[Orpheus]

Thank you for your replays!

Mod wont suit me because I can't ask other players to install mod in order to play me with the thracians. Besides, imho the thracians deserve to be in the game more than other factions currently present.

During the centuries thracian tribes can be found from Denmark to Ukraine and down to India. They are big and they are historically important.

I can provide all necessary info about them like heroes, names, special buildings and so on.

I don't push anyone but will like to have conversation with someone who can actually make such decision.

Thank you for your time!

[LordGood]

We're not going to be adding any more civilizations to 0 AD as far as I'm aware. We already have the nightmare of balancing 12 civilizations already, Thrace appearing to be a valuable and well populated area as well, rather than an independent state. Thracian peltasts are in the Athenian unit roster, and Odrysian skirmisher cavalry fight for Macedon.

Very interesting to read about though, I had heard talk of mercenary factions a while back but I'm not sure where that's at with the team right now.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some time ago I had an idea about mini factions , are quite more simple than Full faction. But can be nice have in mind after first release(1.0 version)

[sanderd17]

4 hours ago, Orpheus said:

Mod wont suit me because I can't ask other players to install mod in order to play me with the thracians.

Why can't you ask that? There are plans to have mods downloadable in the mod manager, so it should become easier to install mods in the future.

Then there should also be some support to see what mods the others have installed in multiplayer, so you can sync your mods with them.

[FeXoR]

On 15.5.2016 at 2:56 PM, Orpheus said:

5. When random map is generated it tends to be not be entirely even for all players which is completely fine (and should be this way) but sometimes is completely uneven, for example yesterday all metal mines were in bottom half of the map and the top players lost quickly.

@Orpheus Do you remember what map that was on so I can try to change that?

[Orpheus]

16 hours ago, LordGood said:

We're not going to be adding any more civilizations to 0 AD as far as I'm aware.

How sad to hear. And UNFAIR!

16 hours ago, LordGood said:

Thrace appearing to be a valuable and well populated area as well, rather than an independent state.

I couldn't disagree more. Thracians are here at 0 A.D., populate vast territories and also are here thousands of years before that unlike other present in game factions. If they have king and army they are independent. Their problem is hat not all thracian tribes are united at the same time and often they do wars between each other instead of focus on the mutual enemies. Their art is unmatched and they give a lot to the all next cultures, empires and civilizations! Look since 50ies how many movies and tv series are produced about the thracian hero Spartacus and his rebellion.Thracians deserve to be in game.

Using them as mercenaries for other factions do not seem right to me.

 

7 hours ago, FeXoR said:

@Orpheus Do you remember what map that was on so I can try to change that?

I don't remember the map but remember the players - Arcadius and JC maybe they will know which map exactly.

[niektb]

Unfair to who? To the Numidians, Armenians and all other factions that are also not in the game? What makes Thracians so much better than all the other candidate civilizations?

[LordGood]

He's just a bit passionate Niek, I'm sure it's just disappointing to hear.

[Orpheus]

You want lesson in history? Because otherwise you would not ask such question. I am not talking about adding some small faction. I am talking about dozens and dozens tribes to be presented under their single name. Do you understand that no one else was able to create such artifacts from gold at the time and what is this mean. Second biggest nation at the time is this not important to you?

 

• Apsynthii
• Astae
• Beni
• Bessi
• Bisaltae
• Bistones
• Bithyni
• Brenae
• Crousi
• Cebrenii
• Coelaletae
• Dersaei
• Edones
• Dentheletae
• Digeri
• Dii
• Diobesi
• Dolonci
• Kainoi
• Kikones
• Coreli
• Corpili
• Krestones
• Krobyzoi
• Maduateni
• Maedi
• MaedoBythini
• Melanditae
• Melanophagi
• Nipsaei
• Odrysae
• Paeti
• Phrygians
• Pieres
• Sapaei
• Satri
• Sycaeboae
• Scyrmiadae
• Sintians
• Sithones
• Thyni
• Tilataei
• Tralles
• Tranipsae
• Trausi
• Treres
• Triballi

and more!

I am passionated but it doesn't mean I am not right that the game will be inaccurate without thracian great warriors and culture : )

Edited May 17, 2016 by Orpheus

[feneur]

Well, we need to draw the line somewhere, and while I personally think we might have been able to make a more enjoyable game with fewer civilizations than the ones we have I certainly don't think it's worth adding more. Could there have been different choices made? Sure, but at some point you have to stick to the decisions that have been made, even if you might have made a different decision at some other point.

And we certainly can't make everyone happy, so changing something just because someone thinks we should is not really a good way forward. Then we'd most likely have a hundred factions or so  Could we hypothetically add one more faction? Maybe, but how could we be fair about which one to add? You might argue for Thracians, but there are others who argue just as passionately for everything from splitting the Iberians, or adding a bunch of additional Hellenistic factions to adding Slavs or Numidians or others. The only way to be fair is to make a decision and stick to it.

[Stan`]

Or chinese =P

[Lion.Kanzen]

I prefer  Scythians than Thracian or Numidians Even Pontus kingdom can be nice.

[Orpheus]

You don't get it. It is not about me it is about the history and accuracy. You have another thread in the forum by another user who ask for the same thing - historical correctness by adding the Thracians.

Thracians are advanced, rich civilization which not particularly look to expand more with warfare because is more spiritually oriented. In their architecture are found precise models of many constellations. Very advanced astronomy with no astronomical tools! How do they knew such things then?

When they found the thracian gold treasure from Panagiurishte  (the first picture in my opening post (i don't know why but it not shows all pictures i posted under firefox and under opera it works fine)) made furor in the entire world because of its dating. Before that the science was not expecting such quality in details is possible at those eras.
To become on level when you create fine jewelry with gold and to bury your dead warriors with great amounts of gold and silver in specially prepared mounds with sizes like 50x50x20meters one need to solve other problems first like shelter, food and so on. One need to have the metal first yes? They had it all.
They invented the wine, also ceramic pipes are found with traces of cannabis sativa in them.
Orpheus is the first musician who even the animals follow and regard.
Spartacus lead so big rebellion at the later ages that the Roman empire will long remember it and that Hollywood will use the plot multiple times for their productions.

As far as i understood your problem is not adding the well deserved Thracians but adding all other factions which other people will like to see. Why not add factions by importance then? Why?

Accordingly the official history in 681 A.D. the so called Bulgarians unite with Thracians and Slavs and create Bulgaria. I mean that I see no eventual conflict between people who may want one of the 3 mentioned.

Nice special building Mound yes?

Two special buildings:

Do you want me to bring here entitled thracologist with several books on the subject?

Seriously, is it the amount of work needed to be done the only reason or you just will deny no matter what.

[LordGood]

I'm going to assume you're Bulgarian based on your e-mail address, and that you have personal stake in this. We aren't denying that we aren't adding them because of the amount of work that needs to be done. It's a ton of work, we haven't even finished up the Seleucids yet, and we need to also review what we already have.

Seeing as you're so attached to this, I can see you're not going to take our word for it and just keep pushing the topic with your hands over your ears, as if that will somehow magically get models and balances made. I would love it if you could prove me wrong in this aspect.

We're not denying the importance of Thrace when we deny it from the civilization roster.

[Orpheus]

Again it is not about me but I guess I am done with 0 A.D. after you doing such mistake. Good luck.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Orpheus

[Lion.Kanzen]

Take a lot of time create a faction, starts a design document, needs balances, a year or more adding building desings...

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Seleucids

you even show an very conceptual idea, you are using photos by interior structures for example, you need have a idea about exterior concept, and that concept need apply to make whole rooster. with Inuits is more easy but need a lot of example of variations, and show which helmets weapons aren't included in the game yet.

 

propose factional symbol.

without a properly design document you even able to start. And may be other factions will be adding by mod or by expansion.

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Orpheus we are volunteers you even help us to doing this or to make this possible. We lack about artists specially 3D.

what language speak these peoples?

you even think about the voices?

you considerate the specific  name by each units and building?

 

how you can contribute to this?