Faction: The Franks

[Stan`]

Nice ! Anyway you can make  the coif texture sharper ?

[wackyserious]

@stanislas69

This is the furthest it can go without recreating the image. Further enhancement might distort the quality.

Spec map was added.

[Tomcelmare]

That's awesome!  The franks should also haven an elite unit using a throwing axe (francisque)...

Edited April 17, 2018 by Tomcelmare

[Stan`]

@wackyserious I really like the leather one

[tlauick_19]

considero que la infantería debería de llevar  el casco de la primera imagen o que se mezclara con los que ya existen 

la segunda imagen muestra un guardia real y un infante , la tercera imagen son soldados carolingios 

[tlauick_19]

-Infantería y caballería pesada carolingia: a la izquierda siglo XIII, a la derecha siglo IX

-Caballería carolingia contra vikingos. Autor Angus McBride

-Batalla entre carolingios y vikingos. Autor Giuseppe Rava

[Tomcelmare]

@wackyserious You definitely should commit this! 

[wackyserious]

  Alexander already committed the mesh and the actor files, the only thing that is not yet committed are the coif textures Will commit it when I get back home.

[wackyserious]

3 hours ago, tlauick_19 said:

considero que la infantería debería de llevar  el casco de la primera imagen o que se mezclara con los que ya existen 

la segunda imagen muestra un guardia real y un infante , la tercera imagen son soldados carolingios 

 

 

Alexandermb already modeled this helmet. I think he already committed it too, yesterday.

[wackyserious]

Should we give the elite spearmen kite shields? or lenticular round shields similar to the swordsmen?

[tlauick_19]

4 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Should we give the elite spearmen kite shields? or lenticular round shields similar to the swordsmen?

maybe for the elite lancers the kite shield.

the comet shield is introduced by the Normans in the 10th century

[Alexandermb]

The kite shield were often used by normans i belive and will better if only them use comet and kite shield since most of the units of all factions uses chain mail or grey texture shields are one of the few options to identify units factions and players (Besides player colour),

 

[Alexandermb]

This are a few architectural references for caro:

Spoiler

I will take this as temple for caro

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/france/germigny-des-pres
https://onlinetravelfrance.blogspot.com/2009/11/germigny-des-pres-church.html

Spoiler

 

[wackyserious]

Depiction from the Psalterium Aureum or the Golden Psalter of St. Gallen

This interesting thread about Carolingian helmets led me to the Psalterium Aureum.

http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1656.0

 

[wackyserious]

@Alexandermb We also need a coif for the other helmets.

 

Plus this round top spangenhelm with a central band that stretches from front to back (and its coif)

A mail coif will also be a good addition

 

[Tomcelmare]

Other examples of frankish churches (roman style):

Collegiate church of Saint Gertrude, Nivelles (Belgium)

[Nescio]

14 minutes ago, Tomcelmare said:

Other examples of frankish churches (roman style):

Collegiate church of Saint Gertrude, Nivelles (Belgium)

Yes, the abbey was founded in the 7th C. However, the current church is 11th C with later additions, e.g.

18 minutes ago, Tomcelmare said:

the façade is late 12th C, but the central octagonal and the two smaller turrets are late 20th C.

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

28 minutes ago, Tomcelmare said:

Other examples of frankish churches (roman style):

Collegiate church of Saint Gertrude, Nivelles (Belgium)

 

Isn't called Roman style is called, Romanesque.

Quote

Romanesque art is the art of Europe from approximately 1000 AD to the rise of the Gothic style in the 12th century, or later, depending on region. The preceding period is known as the Pre-Romanesque period. The term was invented by 19th-century art historians, especially for Romanesque architecture, which retained many basic features of Roman architectural style – most notably round-headed arches, but also barrel vaults, apses, and acanthus-leaf decoration – but had also developed many very different characteristics. In Southern France, Spain and Italy there was an architectural continuity with the Late Antique, but the Romanesque style was the first style to spread across the whole of Catholic Europe, from Sicily to Scandinavia. Romanesque art was also greatly influenced by Byzantine art, especially in painting, and by the anti-classical energy of the decoration of the Insular art of the British Isles. From these elements was forged a highly innovative and coherent style.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanesque_art

[wackyserious]

@Nescio @Sundiata Can you help us determine the names of the Frankish helmets?

 

[Tomcelmare]

@Lion.Kanzen Sorry pal, my mother tongue is french, and we say "art roman", that's why I've written "roman style" without further check...  

@Nescio I don't think there's any existing pure example of carolingian architectural style nowadays, so it's a start...

There's also these:

Baptistère Saint-Jean de Poitiers: built around 360 A.D, and baptismal tank added around 6th century. The frescoes are from the 12th century though. The building has not changed much through centuries:

 

Notre-Dame-La-Grande de Poitiers:

The construction of this one started in XIth century, and was finished in XVIth century, but it's still a remarkable example of a romanesque style church:

With lights animation:

Interior, with the original coulours:

[Lion.Kanzen]

This timeframe the influenced are Germanic with heavy Byzantine

https://study.com/academy/lesson/carolingian-architecture-style-characteristics-examples.html

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Though Charlemagne's accomplishments were modest by comparison to some of these great emperors, they are quite impressive given the lack of cultural production during the dark ages of Western Europe. Charlemagne wanted his empire to be as grand as Rome before him. So like the emperors before him, he sponsored the arts and financed building projects. Charlemagne's building projects mostly concerned cathedrals and monasteries. Many of these buildings also served as schools, as Charlemagne wanted to establish a larger base of literate subjects to help him run his empire.

Quote

Carolingian churches show some distinct differences from early Christian churches. The delicate columns that graced the naves of early Christian basilicas gave way to heavier, bulkier piers, providing greater structural strength and allowing for ever-grander churches. The transept, or bema, a section that crossed the eastern end of a church to form a cross, went from an occasional addition to an established form in Western church building. The addition of a choir, or square area between the transept and the apse, was another invention of the Carolingian renaissance.

Yet the most distinguishing feature of Carolingian architecture is the birth of the westwork, a facade on the western entrance to a church. His capitol at Aachen shows this clearly. Just look at the Palace Chapel. Here we see that the early Christian narthex has been transformed into a single tower-like entrance, called a westwork. Over time, the single tower would become two towers flanking the entrance. We can already see this transition taking place in the Church of San Riquier, which sadly did not survive to modern times. The closest Carolingian architecture got to this two-towered westwork was in the Abbey Church of Corvey. These initial westworks would inspire the two-tower facades of later medieval churches

Quote

Carolingian architecture is the style of north European Pre-Romanesque architecture belonging to the period of the Carolingian Renaissance of the late 8th and 9th centuries, when the Carolingian dynasty dominated west European politics. It was a conscious attempt to emulate Roman architecture and to that end it borrowed heavily from Early Christian and Byzantine architecture, though there are nonetheless innovations of its own, resulting in a unique character.

The gatehouse of the monastery at Lorsch, built around 800, exemplifies classical inspiration for Carolingian architecture, built as a triple-arched hall dominating the gateway, with the arched facade interspersed with attached classical columns and pilasters above.

The Palatine Chapel in Aachen constructed between 792–805 was inspired by the octagonal Justinian church of San Vitale in Ravenna, built in the 6th century, but at Aachen there is a tall monumental western entrance complex, as a whole called a westwork—a Carolingian innovation.

Carolingian churches generally are basilican, like the Early Christian churches of Rome, and commonly incorporated westworks, which is arguably the precedent for the western facades of later medieval cathedrals. An original westwork survives today at the Abbey of Corvey, built in 885

 

Abbey Church of Corvey.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Lion.Kanzen

[Nescio]

2 hours ago, wackyserious said:

@Nescio @Sundiata Can you help us determine the names of the Frankish helmets?

Unfortunately, no, I have no idea how Medieval helmets are called, although my guess is most names are merely descriptive terms coined in the 19th or 20th C.

2 hours ago, Tomcelmare said:

@Lion.Kanzen Sorry pal, my mother tongue is french, and we say "art roman", that's why I've written "roman style" without further check... 

In English something is called Roman if it's constructed by the Romans (in Western Europe it thus ends in 5th C AD) and Romanesque if it's in the Roman-derived style which started somewhere around the year 1000 (depends who you ask). Of course, such terms are arbitrary modern conventions; Medieval European architecture basically forms a continuum: Roman, Post-Roman, Pre-Romanesque, Romanesque, Gothic, Renaissance.

2 hours ago, Tomcelmare said:

@Nescio I don't think there's any existing pure example of carolingian architectural style nowadays, so it's a start...

True, about all Carolingian structures have been replaced during the centuries that follows, although occassionally elements have survived, the most famous is probably the palatine chapel in Aachen, which forms the core of the cathedral. The best preserved example of Carolingian architecture I know is the design of a monastry that was never built: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_Saint_Gall

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

 

The scara of Charlemagne were quartered near the king’s palace; and later in garrisons in key fortresses. The term scara is an imperfectly understood term; but seems to refer both to the elite mounted warriors (caballarii) who were the core of the Frankish army as a whole, and to the formations or regiments of this group. Further, the scara of Charlemagne seem to have been divided into three bodies (or ranks of senority?): the scholares, the scola, and the milites aulae regiae. A tentative explanation is that the scholares were an inner bodyguard of the king (the term obviously derived from the elite guards units of the late Roman Empire, and contemporarily an Imperial Guard regiment of the Byzantine Empire); the scola the guards regiment as a whole; and the last seeming to translate as the “Soldiers of the Royal Court”. In the following century, the term milites came to mean an armored professional mounted warrior; the progenitor of the Medieval knight. So perhaps the milites aulae regiae were all those members of the scara not designated as “Royal Guards”, but quartered in proximity to the palace.

Contemporary representations of Carolingian foot may be dismounted caballarii of the Scara

Another term sometimes used is “palatina“. This is another late Roman military term, used to designate elite formations of the army that were quartered near the capital. It is possible that in Carolingian parlance, the term may have been used to indicate all three of these categories of scara; who were quartered near the king/emperor’s residence. It is from this term for Charlemagne’s elite palace soldiers that the word paladin derives. In the 11th century chansons (chansons de geste), these paladins were a dozen champions of the Emperor’s court. Its possible that if indeed the Scholares were the Emperor’s bodyguards, that this group numbered a dozen and was the ultimate source of the legends of the Paladins.

The caballarii in the armies of Charlemagne and his immediate successors were relatively few in number, though an exact figure cannot definitely be given. The lowest number suggested by scholars is 5,000 for the entire empire (Delbruck); and a high number of 35,000 (Werner). this latter figure seems absurdly inflated, considering the prohibitively high cost of warhorses (up to twelve times the cost of a cow), not to mention the cost of their feed and maintenance. Large warhorses, capable of carrying a minimal of 250lbs of armored man, were in short supply. However, throughout the Carolingian period the kings made every effort to increase the size of their herds. At the Battle of Montfaucon, in 888, the Franks may have had as many as 10,000 mounted men (though, again, this may be exaggeration by the sources).

Merovingian kings inherited Roman horse farms in Gaul, and these were maintained and enlarge where possible. Warhorses were large, strong animals; 15-16 hands in height and between 1,300 and 1,500 pounds. Maintenance of the royal herds was under the authority of a court official titled comes stabuli (“Count of the Stables”, or Constable). By the Middle Ages, this officer would become the senior military leader in the realm.

Those caballarii in attendance upon Charlemagne and quartered about his palace were likely less than 1,000 in number. There is speculation that all scara units were organized into regiments of 300 caballarii, and further divided into 50-men sub-units called cunei (derived from the Latin cuneus, or “wedge”, in the late Roman army a cavalry detachment).

 

A fully armed caballarius was expected to have a helmet, body armor (called brunia, similar to the Scandinavian term for a mail shirt, byrnie), spatha (sword), and lancea (spear). The latter was 8-10 feet in length, with an extended and sharpened iron head. The caballarius of Charlemagne used the spear overhanded or underhanded, as a thrusting weapon; or threw the spear at close quarters. The technique of couching the lance tightly in the rider’s armpit, the most popular technique for knights throughout the Middle Ages, did not come into use until the late 11th and or early 12th century. Horsemen from the Spanish or Breton Marches were often lighter, and used javelins from horseback in the Roman manner.

In battle the caballarii fought in tightly-packed units, each 50 man cunei operating under its own banner. (This is the origin of the later Medieval conroi.) Against lighter cavalry, such as the Magyars, the Franks would use their lighter cavalry to feign flight, drawing the Magyar horsemen into a pursuit to where they could be ambushed by the heavier caballarii waiting in a concealed place. The armored caballarius were encouraged to charge in tight formation, defending against the Magyar’s arrows with their shields and coming to close-quarters as rapidly as possible.

https://deadliestblogpage.wordpress.com/2017/05/03/elite-warriors-of-the-dark-ages-caballarii-of-charlemagne/

[Lion.Kanzen]

43 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Unfortunately, no, I have no idea how Medieval helmets are called, although my guess is most names are merely descriptive terms coined in the 19th or 20th C.

Indeed. some call Frankhelm or Scola helmet.

The Psalterium Aureum was made in the second half of the 9th century in St. Gallen, a monastery in today's Switzerland. Note the peculiar helmet, and also note that a steel helmet was a very valuable piece of equipment, just as expensive as a good sword. It was also an extremely important piece of equipment. With an unprotected head you couldn't last long in battle, especially if attacked by cavalry.
Here is another picture from the "Vivian Bible", the Bible of Charles the Bald. It was commissioned by Count Vivien, the lay abbot of St. Martin at Tours, and presented to Charles the Bald in 846.

https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_b/advanced/tb_4_2.html#_2

A lot of controversy with those.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?225349-The-Great-Conflicts-main-discussion-thread-Please-post-here!/page90

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

Ninth-century written sources occasionally mention the wearing of a helmus or galea, although the shape of these helmets is never indicated, and the material from which they were made is seldom specified. It has already been demonstrated that Notker’s description of “ferreus Karolus, ferrea galea cristatus”30 is not necessarily reliable, but the Breton leader Murman is also reported to have worn an iron helmet.31 The helms which Eberhard of Friuli bequeathed in 867 32 and those on which the Lex Ribuaria set a price of six solidi33 were surely also made of metal rather than leather, in view of their high value. A capitulary reference which implies that only army commanders were expected to own helmets likewise suggests that these were more than simple leather caps.34

Unfortunately, archeology has not furnished us with any helmets datable to the ninth century, nor indeed are any eighth-century specimens known. Hejdova argued that a hemispherical helmet found at Chamoson dated from the ninth century because she deemed its decoration to be Carolingian plant ornament.35 However, in a discussion of the identically shaped Niederrealta helmet Schneider demonstrated that both helms should be dated to the early twelfth century.36 Hejdova’s further suggestion that the nasal and brow-piece of the so-called Wenceslas helmet, a conical helm of the tenth or eleventh century, were taken from a lost Carolingian helmet of the late eighth or early ninth century37 is likewise without foundation. The ornament on the nasal, which Hejdova believed to be early Carolingian, is in fact consistent with the dating of the rest of the helmet.38

It seems unlikely that such one-piece conical helms were worn on the Continent during the ninth century. To my knowledge, only one such helmet is portrayed in any Frankish pictorial source of the period, namely on one folio of the Bern Psychomachia, which dates from the late ninth or early tenth century.39Stylistic analysis suggests that the artist who drew the miniature in question did not illuminate any of the other folios in the manuscript,40 and this explains why the same illustration also includes the only depiction of scale armor in the manuscript. Scale armor has demonstrable links with Byzantine pictorial tradition, and it is therefore significant that conical helmets similar to the one in the Bern Psychomachia can also be seen in contemporary Byzantine miniatures.41 These parallels, coupled with the absence of Frankish analogues, even in the same manuscript, suggest that the artist probably derived his inspiration from a Byzantine miniature rather than a Frankish cavalry helmet.

One conical helmet type which probably was worn by the Carolingians is the Spangenhelm. The name derives from the six or more metal Spangen, or strips, which joined the headband to a metal plate at the apex, forming a framework which was then filled with plates of metal or horn. The Spangenhelm is attested in the West from the third to the seventh centuries,42 and although there are no later Merovingian or Carolingian finds, a Spangenhelm portrayed in the Corbie Psalter of about 800 43 is strikingly similar to those found in sixth-century burials.44 Although it is possible that the Corbie artist copied an earlier illustration incorporating aSpangenhelm, the absence of any such models, together with the fact that the lance in the miniature seems to have been copied from life,45 makes it more likely that the Spangenhelm was still worn in the ninth century.

The standard Carolingian helmet appears to be most clearly portrayed in the Psalterium aureum.46  The helmet can be described as follows: the cap tapers toward a projecting neckguard, with an obvious rim encircling the entire helm. This rim appears to rise to a point at the forehead, where a button marks the intersection with a band descending from the apex. This band may form part of a crest running across the whole of the cap, which some sources depict bearing a plume as well.47

Most of these features can be observed on the helmets in the Stuttgart Psalter, although the neckguard is less pronounced, and the band displaced from the center of the forehead.48 The same helmet type is also portrayed in the Bible of San Paolo fuori le Mura,49 and in several of the decorated Bibles from the Tours scriptorium.50 Similar helmets can also be seen in the Utrecht Psalter51 and the Bern Psychomachia,52 and on ivories such as a worn tablet now in the Louvre53 and a diptych in Milan.54

Two factors suggest that the Psalterium aureum helmet represents a type which was genuinely worn by the Carolingians rather than one which originated in external pictorial tradition. First, the helmets depicted in surviving late Roman and Byzantine miniatures are not of this type.55 Although Dufrenne has claimed that late antique models can be found in the synagogue at Dura 56 and on the Theodosian column,57 in both cases the helmets are closer to those in the Vatican Virgil than to the Psalterium aureum type.58 Second, the most plausible explanation for the consistent portrayal of the same helmet type in such a variety of Frankish sources influenced by different iconographic traditions is that the artist copied from life. As is demonstrated below, the depiction of round shields with onionshaped bosses provides a parallel case where archeology has proved the contemporaneity of the type. As for the derivation of the Psalterium aureum helmet, several late Roman cavalry helms have been discovered which could represent the sort of model from which the Carolingian form ultimately developed.59

One of the helmets bequeathed by Eberhard of Friuli was described as “helmum @#$% hasbergha.”60 Although this term evidently signified a mailcoat (hauberk) in later medieval texts,61 the fact that the will of Count Eccard of Macon referred to a “brunia @#$% alsbergo” implies that in the ninth century the two items were distinct.62 The association of the halsberga with a helmet in Eberhard’s will, but above all the evident etymological derivation, from hair: “the neck” and berga:“a protector,” suggest that the item in question was some sort of neck protector, possibly attached to the helmet. Oman proposed that the halsberga was a “thick leather covering hiding the ears and neck,”63 but the Spangenhelm found at Krefeld-Gellep had a mail curtain forming a neckguard,64 as did the late eighth-century Anglo-Saxon helmet recently discovered in York.65 As the Stuttgart Psalter also portrays what appears to be a helmet with a mail curtain, this seems the most likely interpretation of the “helmum @#$% hasbergha.”66

http://deremilitari.org/2014/02/carolingian-arms-and-armor-in-the-ninth-century/

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Unfortunately, written sources give no indication as to the size, shape, or construction of Frankish shields, but miniatures and ivories consistently portray a single type of shield, carried by both infantry and cavalry.75 Round and concave, the shield appears to have been about 0.8 m. in diameter, protecting the body from the neck to the thighs.76 However, Carolingian artists are known to have been influenced by late Roman and Byzantine artistic traditions, and both Byzantine and late antique manuscripts also depict round, concave shields of a similar size.77 It has therefore been claimed by some art historians that the shields portrayed in Carolingian sources were copies of such pictorial models and not contemporary Frankish armament.78 However, two factors suggest that this is not the case.

Firstly, most of the shields depicted in Frankish sources have an onion-shaped sugarloaf boss,79 while many are also decorated with a series of radial arcs.80These features are not found in either late Roman or Byzantine illuminations. The arcs apparently formed part of Germanic tradition, since they can also be seen on the Hornhausen stone, from about 700,81 and on picture stones on Gotland.82 As for the onion-shaped shield boss, archeological evidence indicates that this form only developed in the eighth century, and thus that the Frankish artists who drew such bosses were reproducing contemporary conditions.83

Secondly, the few eighth-century shield remains which have been discovered testify that Frankish shields of the period were indeed round or oval, although the known specimens were somewhat less than 80 cm. in diameter, ranging from 52 to 70 cm.84

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