Faction: Norse

[Radagast.]

Btw, nice references, looks a bit similar to those celtic entrenchments as found in east europe? Apropos East Europe, just hope all this civil war thing stops spreading. We should become more tolerant .. and definitely need leaders that act more wisely and less selfishly than that what we largely see currently in Europe and around the world. Hope everyone's fine here at least.

Perhaps we have viking blood in our venes .. so that we're addicted to the military part - raiding and such. Will raiding be part of this mod?? I mean there once was one single giant viking soldier at a bridgehead that kept back a whole army (50 heavily armed men were struck by this giant of a viking without armour that they left back with their ships and a warhammer only).

At least from an artist perspective this variation in size will add a fresh effect. Looking forward to see your viking giants if you plan them (perhaps as champion unit??).

Edited February 21, 2014 by Hephaestion

[feneur]

By adccident I couldn't download the last one (65 MB and bandwidth per month is limited around 150 MB)... the only condition is credit for all of them. Can use it anywhere in your own scenes, renders, 0 A.D. .. can adapt it rework it, change, you know all is allowed as long as it's noncommercial besides that one that is even free to use for commercial purposes according to its CC-ZERO license:

Not sure exactly what you're saying here, but if there are files which can only be used non-commercially I would advise against using them in anything that's based on the 0 A.D. content as our license allows commercial use (and that applies for anything that's created based on our content as well as you need to follow the same license for those things), and it's a lot easier if you don't mix licenses. CC-0 should work though as far as I can tell.

[niektb]

Btw, nice references, looks a bit similar to those celtic entrenchments as found in east europe? Apropos East Europe, just hope all this civil war thing stops spreading. We should become more tolerant .. and definitely need leaders that act more wisely and less selfishly than that what we largely see currently in Europe and around the world. Hope everyone's fine here at least.

Perhaps we have viking blood in our venes .. so that we're addicted to the military part - raiding and such. Will raiding be part of this mod?? I mean there once was one single giant viking soldier at a bridgehead that kept back a whole army (50 heavily armed men were struck by this giant of a viking without armour that they left back with their ships and a warhammer only).

At least from an artist perspective this variation in size will add a fresh effect. Looking forward to see your viking giants if you plan them (perhaps as champion unit??).

No, they are not really (well, perhaps a little bit) comparable with Celtic entrenchments. These Viking Fortresses all followed a standard design, made by Harald Bluetooth. That is what makes them unique. Regarding giants. Hm, I do not really like becoming a bit a fantasy game. Besides: we do already have Berserkers.

And what do you mean by raiding becoming part of this mod? (You will get loot from killing and destroying if you meant that.)

Edited February 21, 2014 by niektb

[FeXoR]

BTW: Horned helmets where never used (at least not for protection in battle).

http://listverse.com/2009/04/21/top-10-misconceptions-about-the-vikings/

http://www.visitdenmark.com/denmark/culture/vikings-facts-and-myths

Edited February 21, 2014 by FeXoR

[greenknight32]

Considering how widely Vikings traveled, I imagine the design of these forts was partly inspired by the Celtic forts - adapted and no doubt improved by the Danes.

[Radagast.]

Not sure exactly what you're saying here, but if there are files which can only be used non-commercially I would advise against using them in anything that's based on the 0 A.D. content as our license allows commercial use (and that applies for anything that's created based on our content as well as you need to follow the same license for those things), and it's a lot easier if you don't mix licenses. CC-0 should work though as far as I can tell.

The only models from blendswap that are only usable for non-commercial use are the ones marked as Fan-Art.

So the artistic works is the same license like 90% of the models of blendswap. As is the 0 A.D. program code itself which is LesserGPL2 license and the AI is GPL2 - both non-permittive for proprietary non-open source works but allowing for open-source but commercial use..

For the Fan-Art models you are correct, we should not use those!

CC-0 and LGPL and GPL should do as the program itself have those licenses. Easy to find licenses in a local SVN or GIT copy via

find ~/0ad/ | grep license

.

Though I don't know for the artistic license. Good you mentioned that problem with the Fan-Art, that's important indeed!

I've checked the models, they are all free for commercial use, they are not Fan-Art.

Not even that one:

But it has horned helmet. That's bad.

BTW: Horned helmets where never used (at least not for protection in battle).

Thanks for the input. So this one will be okay?

No, they are not really (well, perhaps a little bit) comparable with Celtic entrenchments. These Viking Fortresses all followed a standard design, made by Harald Bluetooth. That is what makes them unique.

Interesting, so probably they are completely independent. The details make the different I guess. And construction-wise you are right too - not too much in common. (only because it's all round it must not be equal, my fault!)

Regarding giants. Hm, I do not really like becoming a bit a fantasy game. Besides: we do already have Berserkers.

Cool! I meant not too small a giant. It was just a bigger viking, so no real giant.

And what do you mean by raiding becoming part of this mod? (You will get loot from killing and destroying if you meant that.)

Yes, something like that sounds fitting.

Considering how widely Vikings traveled, I imagine the design of these forts was partly inspired by the Celtic forts - adapted and no doubt improved by the Danes.

I think so too. Even the Romans had ties to foreign countries like the Asian world in the form of merchants. So I think it's finally difficult to tell who was inspired by whom. Though it's still possible that they developed it themselves. Nowadays there also are many independent scientists that invent many equal things at the same time.

Thanks for the links, so this is the correct helmet:

Edited February 23, 2014 by Hephaestion

[Lion.Kanzen]

Nice helmet Hephaestion.

[Radagast.]

Found it in FeXoR's links ...

With raiding I meant "raids" or incursions into foreign territory. So exactly what you explained niektd.

Also I see our team is very powerful. Niektd has already added to the C++ and simulation base some very important features for supply chains!

And the artworks from our community itself are more than convincing.

Today I put together the state machine for the new combined/hybrid senate/leadership AI:

Built using: http://madebyevan.com/fsm/

Note this is the high level. Each state has its own set of commands available. E.g. in the subdued one can only set up civil commands. Whereas in the rebellion all commands within the categories

• civil,
• resources,
• military

but not e.g. diplomacy are available.

Within each command the decision taking takes place as outlined several times before (e.g. in the Roman Mod or the AI tournament thread).

[niektb]

Today I came across some nice models:

http://www.sharecg.com/v/22777/gallery/5/3D-Model/Viking-Longboat?interstitial_displayed=Yes

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/free-viking-sword-3d-model/766859

Are we allowed to use them?

Edited March 6, 2014 by niektb

[sanderd17]

The first one has "all rights reserved". So you must ask written permission before you can do anything with it (even sharing on this forum is forbidden if you follow the license strictly). The second one has "royalty free use", but that's still too much restrictions to be used in combination with the other artwork.

[Stan`]

I may have some viking swords somewhere. To use them you have to make sure they have the correct license. The sword may be a bithigh poly for the game. For the boat you could also modify the existing model

[Stan`]

Did you define a Civic Center building ? I saw Lion posted a nice one a few pages ago.

[niektb]

This is my opinion on how we should differentiate the gameplay for vikings:

Vikings start with a Longhouse instead of a Civic Centre.

The Longhouse is a dropsite for food and wood only, features a small ranged attack and is able to create female citizen + standard axeman. Furthermore the longhouse is more expensive than a normal house (which isn't available to Vikings), more units are able to garrison and a larger pop cap bonus. In the 2nd phase the Chief's House (or Town Hall, hasn't decided yet which is the best name) comes available which is a full size CC with all skills from a normal CC.

Regarding to the longboat: This one functions as a mobile dropsite, boosts looting in the area around him and is able to train a few types of units. (what amount and which types?)

Any comments, suggestions?

What footprint size do you currently use?


I hadn't decided about the Civic center yet, but I was thinking of the following:

Merging the CC with the fortress, the final building being called: The Jarl's Hold.

I couldn't find really vikingish towers (Did they even build them?)

I could only find these specific viking fortresses. Let's do this for the Jarl's Hold. Agreed? (Perhaps a simplfied, smaller -that is with less buildings and less walls- version?)

@Hephaestion: Could you get a copy of the uppermost models?

Jarl's Hold

Class: Civic Center, Fortress

I suppose using a resized version of this one, with less buildings and less walls:

We can re-use the longhouse but with stone foundations as an addition.

This is how I personnaly thought of making Vikings a different to play faction.

[Stan`]

So basically, what models do you need ?

[niektb]

That is where the difficult part begins. Making it full-size would be way too large (sixteen longhouses would turn out huge!).

What is an accurate way of using less buildings in this fortress? And how should the ground on which the palisade stands be created (and fit it in most climates)?

[Stan`]

That is where the difficult part begins. Making it full-size would be way too large (sixteen longhouses would turn out huge!).

What is an accurate way of using less buildings in this fortress? And how should the ground on which the palisade stands be created (and fit it in most climates)?

Maybe one block of four longhouses ? With a well in the middle. Or the house. Or the house lion posted. Well it can be earth until we introduce biome variations. If it's not planned it should.

That would also mean that unlike the other civs, the Vikings should have four buildings to be destroyed. Moreover you have to choose whether there is obstruction in it. If so... maybe the civ center should have some kind of repair, like when one of the five is destroyed, a foundation is built were the rubbles are that can be replaced to make it functionnal again.

Just thinking out loud

Edited April 10, 2014 by stanislas69

[niektb]

Using only one block of houses is what I first thought of too. But than another problem appears: How do I place those houses keeping the roads as is? Rotating the house block 45 degree?

I think your second idea is a bit too much right now and a mere impossibility, even though it's not a bad idea.

[Stan`]

Yup you could. Or rotating the roads. Also the view is at 45°

[niektb]

Yup you could. Or rotating the roads. Also the view is at 45°

Rotating the roads or the house block, the result is the same (the building is symmetrical)

[niektb]

But to answer your question: We need a longhouse with a stone foundation and a huge bunch of props (well, shields, weaponry, archery targets, circular wooden palisade (including gates, re-use of already existing is possible), and a ground foundation for the palisade.

Lion's house is better suited as wonder (Like in AOE2).

[Stan`]

I'm thinking of something more modular. Why not keep those forts for scenarios ?

What I suggest in replacement is using boats. Since they were supposed to be light enough to be displaced, and even to go on rivers.

A bit like this. (BTW the game (Cultures 2) had a nice unit growth system.)

[Radagast.]

Definitely (it's also beautiful). If only the world were not that bad and all those Cultures 2 magic and art now were not lost. :/ (as it's not open source)

So we have no alternative to reinventing the wheel. If the world would join efforts a bit more, then we could finally for all times make awesome things happen continuously.

Maybe one block of four longhouses ? With a well in the middle. Or the house. Or the house lion posted. Well it can be earth until we introduce biome variations. If it's not planned it should.

That would also mean that unlike the other civs, the Vikings should have four buildings to be destroyed. Moreover you have to choose whether there is obstruction in it. If so... maybe the civ center should have some kind of repair, like when one of the five is destroyed, a foundation is built were the rubbles are that can be replaced to make it functionnal again.

Just thinking out loud

I would also prop the buildings. So just have a base model (best without roof for our prop demolition system) with plenty of prop points.

Defining obstructionless parts is not yet possible but it is on our list.

This all fits nicely with our prop demolition system we've planned. Modulariy is our friend. If we can't buildings built-up of stones and planks, then we at least have parts. (base, middle, upper, more?) The upper may have prop-points for a chimney (on tech research) or an astrolabium tower.

In case of the ship as the Civic Center we could research a better sail. Ultimately the ship should work like siege machines (pack<->unpack, nomadic system).

In general this should work for all objects. I hope the engine does not distinguish so much between props and other 3D models.

[Stan`]

+1 We need to discuss in deepness that destruction stuff. There are good possibilities. A lot of games have interesting stuff.(Die Siedler, Knights And Merchants, Cultures 2, Medieval 2...)

[niektb]

No, I'd rather keep the Jarl's Hold. Keeping out a strong fortress would render Vikings (even though meant to be an offensive civ) rather defenseless: No stone walls only stronger palisades, no defense tower, weaker at start and then no fortress too? Not the best idea, besides: we need a place to train champion units (=>huscarls), which were originally Jarl's bodyguard.

Secondly the Longboat already has some of the features you suggested:

1. It is able to train some units.

2. It is a mobile dropsite

What's more:

3. It gives a loot bonus in a certain area around him.

[Stan`]

What about....Making four buildings the same and giving a bonus to the player if the big fort is complete ?