Athenian Olives

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

This topic is near and dear to my heart since it defined Athenian identity.  Namely, I refer to olives and how they could be represented.  If this has already been implemented in some form since I last played, my apologies.

Olive technology or bonus: Simply by having a technology or bonus that makes Athenian farmers produce metal alongside food would be one easy step in representing their use.  It does, however, perhaps leave some to be desired in giving interesting choices.  

Trade technology: Olives were important primarily for facilitating trade, and having perhaps two technologies that represent that would be nice since it could also introduce a way of depicting black and red figure ware as the technology names, a nice nod to their prolific pottery.  

Unique farm: much like Age of Empires 3, there could be a farm that produces only metal.  Since this would probably require a new farm asset, it is perhaps the least most desirable option.

I am well aware that the farm related bonuses would feel redundant when Athens already has a mining bonus.  One way of solving that would be to make the mining bonus only unique to Themistocles.  Although the mine does seem to have been known prior to his day, he was the one who harnessed it for the production of triremes.
 

[Seleucids]

Interesting idea! 

We can have a tech that allows Athenian farmers to produce 1 metal every 10 seconds.

In addition, we can give Athenians a metal extractor building, which works identically to a field but produces metal instead of food when you assign workers onto it. This allows Athenians to consume metal even when they have run out of natural mines. 

These metal boosts enables the Athenian player to make large quantities of merc jav inf which takes advantage of Iphicrates bonus. Additionally, it allows them to counter champion cav with City Guards.

[Gurken Khan]

Another idea I had was making olive ~fields that can cling to mountains; on maps like Hellas it can be difficult to place regular fields. In addition we could make them work a bit different as you suggested.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We had already discussed having a phase 3 building that would be like a plantation.

Different civilizations have different production buildings.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Might be cool to do an olive plantation building to replace the metal mining civ bonus. Although could exist in addition to the existing one.

If and when a model is made, I could come up with a pretty good way to integrate it into the civ.

Edited November 30 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Stan`]

8 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Might be cool to do an olive plantation building to replace the metal mining civ bonus.

If and when a model is made, I could come up with a pretty good way to integrate it into the civ.

We do have an old orchard actor we could use.

[nifa]

I don't get it, what's the connection between olives and metal? If someone would provide references I could see what I can do about a model

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

I don't get it, what's the connection between olives and metal? If someone would provide references I could see what I can do about a model

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

19 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I don't get it, what's the connection between olives and metal?

You have to think about coins and wealth and the trade generated from industry.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Olives and olive oil were not only an important component of the ancient Mediterranean diet but also one of the most successful industries in antiquity. Cultivation of the olive spread with Phoenician and Greek colonization from Asia Minor to Iberia and North Africa and fine olive oil became a great trading commodity right through to the Roman period and beyond. The olive also came to have a wider cultural significance, most famously as a branch of peace and as the victor's crown in the ancient Olympic Games.

Long-lived and drought-resistant, the tree was a handily low-maintenance form of farming. Olive growers usually planted their trees in amongst fruit trees and reared animals so as to have some income in case of an olive crop failure, and it was an easy way to keep groves grass and weed free. The residue from pressing oil from olives could also be used as feed, especially for pigs.

The earliest known presses in Greece come from Olynthos. Several examples have been excavated which used circular millstones to crush the olives. One of the best-preserved olive presses comes from Hellenistic Argilos in northern Greece. As the machine evolved, a winch was added to bring down the beam with greater force.

Uses

Not only were olives and olive oil an important part of the Mediterranean diet and cooking process (and still are, of course) but the oil produced from pressed olives was also used for many other purposes. Greeks and Romans used it to clean their bodies after exercise – smearing it on so that it collected dirt and sweat and then scraping it off using a metal instrument called a strigil. Olive oil was used as a fuel in terracotta (and more rarely metal) lamps, as an ingredient of perfumes, in religious rituals, for massages, as a multi-purpose lubricant, and even prescribed as a medicine.

The Athenians considered the olive tree a gift from their patron goddess Athena, and this very tree grew on the acropolis of the city. They had an entire sacred grove of olive trees (moriae) too, from which oil was pressed and placed into uniquely decorated amphora vases to be given as prizes in the annual Panathenaic festival.

 

Olive branches came to signify peace. Herodotus tells us that in the early 5th century BC Aristagoras of Miletus carried one when he went to negotiate help from Cleomenes during the Ionian Revolt against Persia so that he would not be turned away from the Spartan king. Olive branches were also carried by pilgrims who visited the sacred oracle of Apollo at Delphi. 

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/947/the-olive-in-the-ancient-mediterranean/

 

Edited November 30 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

@AIEND had already touched this concept on this topic(well, me too).

 

[nifa]

On 30/11/2024 at 6:20 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Might be cool to do an olive plantation building to replace the metal mining civ bonus. Although could exist in addition to the existing one.

I started working on an olive oil mill building using the references provided by @Lion.Kanzen and this is to get a first impression of how it could look like in the end. Any ideas about the general setup of the building? How many wings and roofs and in what directions? I tried to keep it comparable in size but distinguishable from the farmstead, storage and corral.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

I started working on an olive oil mill building using the references provided by @Lion.Kanzen and this is to get a first impression of how it could look like in the end. Any ideas about the general setup of the building? How many wings and roofs and in what directions? I tried to keep it comparable in size but distinguishable from the farmstead, storage and corral.

Quite talented. Very good.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

Any ideas about the general setup of the building? How many wings and roofs and in what directions? I tried to keep it comparable in size but distinguishable from the farmstead, storage and corral.

It should be like the plantation from AoE III in size.

It is not supposed to be a first phase building.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

2 hours ago, nifa said:

I started working on an olive oil mill building using the references provided by @Lion.Kanzen and this is to get a first impression of how it could look like in the end. Any ideas about the general setup of the building? How many wings and roofs and in what directions? I tried to keep it comparable in size but distinguishable from the farmstead, storage and corral.

Neat. I like having ancillary buildings in the game to liven up the game world. May I suggest the trees be made as prop points?  

[Lion.Kanzen]

It needs some decoration in the back.

[Stan`]

Nice work. You might try to add an olive tree to it

[Stan`]

Would be nice to update the orchard actor too.

We could have then the orchard having an aura that gives a small resource trickle to the mill.

The mill would have a distance restriction to reduce the spam.

[Feldfeld]

55 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Would be nice to update the orchard actor too.

We could have then the orchard having an aura that gives a small resource trickle to the mill.

The mill would have a distance restriction to reduce the spam.

There can also be the concept of progressive resource cost. The cost of the next building depends on the number of buildings currently in place, it augments with that number. That concept is used in Age of Mythology Egyptian monument to gods, it is also used in Age of Empires Online if my memory is correct. This allows for a bonus from the early game that can scale properly in the late game.

The Persian ice house could benefit from this as right now it doesn't feel it has a good place in gameplay.

But a distance restriction could also work.

Edited Monday at 09:07 by Feldfeld

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 hours ago, Stan` said:

Would be nice to update the orchard actor too.

We could have then the orchard having an aura that gives a small resource trickle to the mill.

The mill would have a distance restriction to reduce the spam.

Or restricted number...

We'll decide later.

Feldfeld's proposal is interesting.

Edited Monday at 13:52 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Could use grapes until a good "olive tree orchard" can be made. 

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

14 hours ago, nifa said:

I started working on an olive oil mill building using the references provided by @Lion.Kanzen and this is to get a first impression of how it could look like in the end. Any ideas about the general setup of the building? How many wings and roofs and in what directions? I tried to keep it comparable in size but distinguishable from the farmstead, storage and corral.

I think that having one of the walls match the contour of the roof within the courtyard might make it look better (as per the reference picture). Also, do note that there are some windows on the back of the reference picture that would help to make the back of the building work better.  As a final suggestion, having the supporting posts be made of wood I think makes more sense than the stone and ties better with the reference.

[nifa]

4 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I think that having one of the walls match the contour of the roof within the courtyard might make it look better (as per the reference picture).

good point, I missed that in the reference! Will look better for sure.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

18 hours ago, Feldfeld said:

There can also be the concept of progressive resource cost. The cost of the next building depends on the number of buildings currently in place, it augments with that number. That concept is used in Age of Mythology Egyptian monument to gods, it is also used in Age of Empires Online if my memory is correct. This allows for a bonus from the early game that can scale properly in the late game.

The Persian ice house could benefit from this as right now it doesn't feel it has a good place in gameplay.

But a distance restriction could also work.

This is a feature I'd like to have in the game. The trick is to make even the foundation of a building increase the cost of the next foundation, etc. Rather than relying on the structure's completion before affecting the cost of the next one (else, the player could easily exploit by laying all the foundations first, then constructing). I hack this in DE for the cult statues by making it so you can only build 1 at a time. It's pretty clumsy, but it works okay for a hack.