Hero Death Notification

[Lion.Kanzen]

Egyptian 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_afterlife_beliefs#:~:text=Egyptian religious doctrines included three,the tomb of the deceased.

 

[Vantha]

  On 14/10/2024 at 10:38 PM, nifa said:

Maybe civ specific with a reference to their mythology?

e.g. greek:

<ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> has crossed River Styx to meet Hades.

e.g. britons

The valkyries led <ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> to valhalla.

Neither is english my mother tongue nor am I a historian but I hope you get the Idea:)

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I love the idea! It's quite easy to implement too. And it could be turned it off in the game options, just like the native names can.

[nifa]

nice, maybe @Ultimate Aurelian @Genava55 have some ideas?

[Samulis]

Here's an option using a shell trumpet-

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 18/10/2024 at 6:01 PM, Samulis said:

Here's an option using a shell trumpet-

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I like the sound but I'm not sure if it's for this.

But it is interesting for sound in combat.

[Vantha]

I agree with @Lion.Kanzen . It sounds good and fits in the game well. But, in my opinion, when a hero dies one would expect a "stronger" and "darker" sound. I'm sure you know what I mean.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Could the sound be tweaked in a couple of ways to sound a bit more mournful/solemn?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

In AOM, there's a special death sound Arkantos makes @0:14 

 

Then a V.O. says to everyone:

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 19/10/2024 at 1:24 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

In AOM, there's a special death sound Arkantos makes @0:14 

 

Then a V.O. says to everyone:

 

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The problem with VO , you will need multi language.

I'll prefer a lament from beyond the grave.

[Gurken Khan]

  On 19/10/2024 at 12:37 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Could the sound be tweaked in a couple of ways to sound a bit more mournful/solemn?

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Nobody jumped on the sad trombone, but how about a sad shell trumpet?

I actually think the descending tones, drawing out the last, deepest tone would be a good structure. Do have something deeper than a shell trumpet? I feel it should stand out and sound meaningful, and if it is played only a couple of times per game we don't have to restrain ourselves too much.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 19/10/2024 at 2:04 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

The problem with VO , you will need multi language.

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That's a challenge, for sure, but not insurmountable. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 19/10/2024 at 2:24 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

That's a challenge, for sure, but not insurmountable. 

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The first versions are easy to launch, you only need English, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian.

Then the problem is Asia and the rest of Europe.

[ShadowOfHassen]

  On 19/10/2024 at 2:28 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

The first versions are easy to launch, you only need English, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian.

Then the problem is Asia and the rest of Europe.

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Hey, if we have a translator for that language, I'm sure they can pronounce it.

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 19/10/2024 at 3:16 AM, ShadowOfHassen said:

Hey, if we have a translator for that language, I'm sure they can pronounce it.

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It's not the same as having a professional voice.

While now having a professional voice may involve using AI.

[ShadowOfHassen]

  On 19/10/2024 at 3:23 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

It's not the same as having a professional voice.

While now having a professional voice may involve using AI.

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It’s one short sentence I don’t think think they could bungle it that much.

(and let’s NOT use AI for voices, that’s even worse than unprofessional voice acting)

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 19/10/2024 at 10:10 AM, ShadowOfHassen said:

and let’s NOT use AI for voices, that’s even worse than unprofessional voice acting)

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That won't always be the case.

[Vantha]

I took up the idea of including references to the mythologies again. The idea is to have a basic message ("<PlayerName>'s hero <HeroName> has fallen in battle.") and optionally add a second sentence to it for some historical flavor. And, of course, also offer the possibility to disabled the notifications entirely. This is the list I put together:

  Reveal hidden contents

Hellenic and Hellenistic civilizations (Athenians, Macedonians, Spartans, Seleucids) - except the Ptolemies:
    "His soul will be ferried across the river Styx by Charon."
    "His soul will be led to the Elysian Fields by Hermes for his merits."
    "His soul will pass by Cerberus into the underworld, never to return."
    "His soul will enter the realm of Hades."
    "His deeds will be judged by Minos, Radamanthus, and Aecus."

Celts (Britons, Gauls):
    "His soul will journey to the Antumnos."
    "His soul will persist under the aegis of Erecura."

Carthaginians:
    "His soul will be guided to the afterlife by Melqart."

Han:
    "His soul will descend to the Yellow Springs."
    "His soul will cross the Naihe Bridge of Oblivion and drink from Meng Po's soup."
    "His soul will be escorted to King Yama by Oxhead and Horseface."

Iberians:
    "His soul will henceforth be commanded and protected by Ataecina."

Kushites:
    "His heart will be weighed against the feather of Ma'at."
    "His soul awaits the final judgement of Osiris."

Mauryas:
    "His soul will be reborn according to his Karma."

Persians:
    "His soul will be reunited with Ahura Mazda."
    "His soul will face final judgement in three days at the Chinvat bridge."
    "His deeds will be weighed on Mithra's scale."

Ptolemies:
    "His soul will travel into the underworld ruled by Serapis."
    "His soul will be led into the underworld by Hermanubis."
    "His soul will come under the care of Isis."

Romans:
    "His soul will be ferried across the river Styx by Charon."
    "His soul will be led to the Elysian Fields by Mercury for his merits."
    "His soul will pass by Cerberus into the underworld, never to return."
    "His soul will enter the realm of Pluto."
    "His deeds will be judged by Minos, Radamanthus, and Aecus."

At first, I thought about adding some descriptive terms to the names since we can't expect all players to understand the references on their own. However, I ended up deciding against it to keep the messages shorter. Instead, I made all sentences start with "His soul" (or similar) to signal that they aren't related to the gameplay. And I think the names alone can also spark interest.

Also, I'm aware that some heroes in the game are female -> we need two variants of each sentence, one feminine and one masculine. (I only included the masculine ones above for simplicity)

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

 

By the way, @Samulis, if you could make another sound effect for the notification, that'd be awesome.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Vantha

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

For the Ptolemies, you could also reference Isis and Anubis, two major Egyptian deities that were also worshipped during that time.

[Vantha]

  On 12/11/2024 at 12:12 PM, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

For the Ptolemies, you could also reference Isis and Anubis, two major Egyptian deities that were also worshipped during that time.

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I'd like to keep the Ptolemies focused on the cult of Serapis, and Graeco-Egyptian syncretism in general. Original Egyptian mythology is (more or less) present through the Kushites already. I'll add a sentence about Hermanubis (combining Hermes and Anubis) to the list above.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 12/11/2024 at 1:29 PM, Vantha said:

I'd like to keep the Ptolemies focused on the cult of Serapis, and Graeco-Egyptian syncretism in general

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This is very important. Thank you for mentioning this. It's very important to emphasize how different the Ptolemaic age was from earlier Egyptian epochs. This was a time of rapid change for sure and it's good to emphasize this fact. Also perhaps mention though that this syncretism was probably largely focused on urban and cult centers, while rural areas were probably largely still practicing the old ways for decades, even centuries after the conquests of Alexander and Caesar. This dichotomy is seen throughout the world, actually. An example of this is the very long and winding adoption of Christianity throughout Europe, where various forms of paganism were still practiced in the countryside for over a thousand years after Europe had "officially" Christianized. 

Back to Ptolemies, the Serapis cult can be emphasized for its importance to the political and social order, but I think a strong mention of the Isis cult is warranted. You see Isis worship throughout the Mediterranean, while notsomuch for Serapis. Cleaopatra herself worshipped Isis and styled herself as Isis incarnate (at least it was written about her; possibly to "Orientalize" her to Roman citizens, but perhaps has a strong kernel of truth). A cursory mention of the rest of the Egyptian pantheon can help add flavor. Everyone loves flavor.  

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 11/11/2024 at 11:11 PM, Vantha said:

Instead, I made all sentences start with "His soul" (or similar) to signal that they aren't related to the gameplay.

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I think generically "shade" works better here, for authentic flavor. Perhaps we could look up what each culture called the "soul", but to my English speaking ears, "soul" sounds Christianized, while "shade" sounds more pagan and more authentic to the period of the game. Now, for Gothic and Late Roman civs, "soul" (to my ears) would sound perfectly fine. YMMV.

[Vantha]

  On 12/11/2024 at 2:35 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Back to Ptolemies, the Serapis cult can be emphasized for its importance to the political and social order, but I think a strong mention of the Isis cult is warranted. You see Isis worship throughout the Mediterranean, while notsomuch for Serapis. Cleaopatra herself worshipped Isis and styled herself as Isis incarnate (at least it was written about her; possibly to "Orientalize" her to Roman citizens, but perhaps has a strong kernel of truth). A cursory mention of the rest of the Egyptian pantheon can help add flavor. Everyone loves flavor.  

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Fair points. I added an entry referencing Isis to the list above (for the Ptolemies).

  On 12/11/2024 at 2:40 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think generically "shade" works better here, for authentic flavor. Perhaps we could look up what each culture called the "soul", but to my English speaking ears, "soul" sounds Christianized, while "shade" sounds more pagan and more authentic to the period of the game. Now, for Gothic and Late Roman civs, "soul" (to my ears) would sound perfectly fine. YMMV.

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Sounds reasonable, but I can't really speak on that since I'm not a native English speaker. What do others think about this?

@ShadowOfHassen

[Grautvornix]

  On 11/11/2024 at 11:11 PM, Vantha said:

Also, I'm aware that some heroes in the game are female -> we need two variants of each sentence, one feminine and one masculine. (I only included the masculine ones above for simplicity)

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

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One thought: what if you connect the two sentences like:

"<hero's name> has fallen in battle and crossed River Styx to meet Hades"

In this way we might be able to avoid the linguistic male/female "complexity"...

[Vantha]

  On 12/11/2024 at 4:17 PM, Grautvornix said:

One thought: what if you connect the two sentences like:

"<hero's name> has fallen in battle and crossed River Styx to meet Hades"

In this way we might be able to avoid the linguistic male/female "complexity"...

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This would work in English (and German). But in many other languages, the verbs need to be conjugated differently depending whether the subject is feminine or masculine. For the translation we'll therefore always need two different strings, no matter the exact wording.

[Grautvornix]

Too bad! Nice try...