Why is the 0 A.D community so small?

[Scallact]

On 18/08/2024 at 11:02 PM, Stan` said:

Well a pain point that has been raised is the fact the game is labelled alpha, so a lot of people feel like it will not be playable or it is not worth their time.

Well, maybe that the elephant in the room, while we are talking about everything else?

I understand the perfectionism of the devs, in not labelling the game as "finished". However nowadays nothing in the market is ever finished. Or maybe it's a dev's choice, to limit unavoidable player's pressure by a too large community? Which I would understand as well.

But, from a player's perspective, it's a lot of wasted awareness potential.

[Stan`]

I've said this before, but I believe what we call alpha has changed meaning, and would now be called beta. Gamma being the released product. There are currently a few things marked as necessary for beta on Trac it's missing IMHO, better moderation tools and single player campaigns.

[ShadowOfHassen]

52 minutes ago, Stan` said:

I've said this before, but I believe what we call alpha has changed meaning, and would now be called beta. Gamma being the released product. There are currently a few things marked as necessary for beta on Trac it's missing IMHO, better moderation tools and single player campaigns.

I even think that list can be pared down, some of the tickets (namely this one: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/4342)) Are kind of silly
 

[Vantha]

5 hours ago, Stan` said:

IIRC Silier started something see

They are gone now so you can take over if you feel like it or start from scratch.

Thanks, I will take a look at it.

[Grautvornix]

2 hours ago, ShadowOfHassen said:

I even think that list can be pared down, some of the tickets (namely this one: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/4342)) Are kind of silly
 

Well, such proposals can be discussed of course, but I would probably not label them blocking to reach beta phase.

Would simple game renaming really make such a big difference? Possibly - we might just not indicate at all, that the game is not final, but instead describe that it is subject to constant eveolution and the community is invited to participate to that. This would potentially turn a slightly negative aspect ("alpha phase" sounding completely immature) into something more positive.

Clearly, the game can be well played and enjoyed and it is mature enough to even conduct MP games and tournaments.

[ShadowOfHassen]

5 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

Well, such proposals can be discussed of course, but I would probably not label them blocking to reach beta phase.

Would simple game renaming really make such a big difference? Possibly - we might just not indicate at all, that the game is not final, but instead describe that it is subject to constant eveolution and the community is invited to participate to that. This would potentially turn a slightly negative aspect ("alpha phase" sounding completely immature) into something more positive.

Clearly, the game can be well played and enjoyed and it is mature enough to even conduct MP games and tournaments.

What we do is remove the alpha tag once we're ready and just say its in early access. That works for literally every triple A studio in existence.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3 hours ago, Stan` said:

I've said this before, but I believe what we call alpha has changed meaning, and would now be called beta. Gamma being the released product. There are currently a few things marked as necessary for beta on Trac it's missing IMHO, better moderation tools and single player campaigns.

Yes, this became pretty apparent to me when I went back and looked at alphas 8 - 12. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

IMHO, the game just needs some kind of singleplayer meta. 

[Grautvornix]

IMHO the game is great. It works and is fun to play. Subject to further evolution of course. New features might be implemented all the time.

So why not be bold and remove the Alpha status, say when publishing 0.27.

Would be interested to hear everyone's opinion!

 

(Note to possibly consider:  from my product development team (completely different industry though) a product development being really finalized means that the product is actually obsolete soon or already as good as dead, no future)

[Stan`]

1 minute ago, Grautvornix said:

So why not be bold and remove the Alpha status, say when publishing 0.27.

Just moving to 0.27 instead of 0.0.27 would already be bold

We could also do 0.1.0

 

[Grautvornix]

Sorry, my mistake.

[Stan`]

Tis alright

[ChronA]

For what it is (an unfinished open source RTS), the truth is 0 A.D. is probably doing fine, or even above expectation, in terms of user numbers and engagement. I think the concern is that, given its stand-out qualities within that cohort, such as its unusual graphical polish, why isn't it more of a positive outlier than it is? Why isn't it pulling in an Age of Empires 2 sized player base for example?

To answer that, I don't think you can wiggle around the reality that 0 A.D. has been in development for 15 years and is still being labeled as in the alpha phase. The implication is that, after all that time, even the developers don't think the product is fit for purpose yet. And it's not entirely wrong. The game is still lacking expected narrative content, a certain amount of gameplay polish, some quality of life features, and performance.

This presents a marketing and growth catch 22. To make development progress you need an engaged user base, but to get more uses you need positive marketing presence, and to get positive marketing presence you really need development progress. You could slap the title beta 1 on the product tomorrow, but that might not help very much. People would rightly ask what has changed. It doesn't address the underlying concern that I think everyone who is aware but skeptical about 0 A.D. harbors: progress towards an actually finished product is glacial. I think this will always make it hard to garner sympathetic press coverage. The only way to change this dynamic is to deliver some major progress on these missing features, or to pivot the project to chasing a more obtainable set of ambitions and ask the public to reevaluate the project using that revised value proposition.

[Grautvornix]

What if if declared the long development cycle and the many fixed bugs/new features for Alpha 0.027  as the reason to be the next release the first releasable version? (i.e. getting rid of any ALPHA notion)

Would we break anything? Would trust be lost?

Don't really think so.

I guess we might be able to break catch22 in some sense.

 

Of course we continue to rely on an active user community for the game to further evolve.

[alre]

also a26 was the one ending the alphabet naming convention. I don't see why next release shouldn't be of a different cycle. btw in today's industry, lack of narrative content doesn't block a game for going into early access either.

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 21/08/2024 at 10:20 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

IMHO, the game just needs some kind of singleplayer meta. 

We need a concept that differentiates us from other RTS, not just being a more detailed .

Basically vision and mission but from the gameplay.

Make the game have more unpredictable tactics,without becoming repetitive.

[Grautvornix]

So instead of calling it "ALPHA" we call it "Early Access" to better match industry's habits ? 

[rossenburg]

42 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

So instead of calling it "ALPHA" we call it "Early Access" to better match industry's habits ? 

After over 19 years we need to call it “early access?” The name doesn’t affect its lack of exposure. IMO 0AD is much fun than Age of empires IV and it’s totally free. The only problem I noticed is the ranking - when you google Age of empires alternatives , you may or may not see 0AD but if you somehow do see it, it’s literally ranked low- way below the list. Just cause people don’t know about it and how great of a game it is. Infact it should be the first to pop up as AOE alternative 

[Lion.Kanzen]

50 minutes ago, rossenburg said:

AOE alternative 

If you are looking for a free alternative, and I mark the word free.

There aren't many free RTS games out there.

The biggest competitor in the area is War Selection.

0AD always stands out.

 

 

[Grautvornix]

@rossenburg I could not agree more! 

If it is not naming itself how can we increase exposure? Get some big games magazines to report on 0AD?

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 hours ago, Grautvornix said:

@rossenburg I could not agree more! 

If it is not naming itself how can we increase exposure? Get some big games magazines to report on 0AD?

Also in stores like Steam or GoG.

But we are not prepared to receive so many people.

[Grautvornix]

In other words, we don't want that much attention, but just some? Should 0AD stay a hidden jewel? (which it is indeed)

The point may be that the smaller the player base, the less contributions we can expect from the community. The entire burden is then placed on the shoulders of a few enthusiasts. (Let me repeat that I am extremely grateful for all that work that went into this beatiful and fascinating game and that I admire your dedication!)

 

Edited October 6 by Grautvornix

[Lion.Kanzen]

21 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

In other words, we don't want that much attention, but just some? Should 0AD stay a hidden jewel? (which it is indeed)

The point may be that the smaller the player base, the less contributions we can expect from the community. The entire burden is then placed on the shoulders of a few enthusiasts. (Let me repeat that I am extremely grateful for all that work that went into this beatiful and fascinating game and that I admire your dedication!)

 

I'm going to look up the topic about that.

It's not easy, but we need attention from the right people.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We could try to put 0 AD in some not very well known indie store.

 

Like

 

https://itch.io/

itch.io is a simple way to find and share indie games online for free.

There are a lot of niche games out there and a lot of fan games.

About itch.io

itch.io is an open marketplace for independent digital creators with a focus on independent video games. It’s a platform that enables anyone to sell the content they've created. As a seller you’re in charge of how it’s done: you set the price, you run sales, and you design your pages. It’s never necessary to get votes, likes, or follows to get your content approved, and you can make changes to how you distribute your work as frequently as you like.

 

itch.io is also a collection of some of the most unique, interesting, and independent creations you'll find on the web. We're not your typical digital storefront, with a wide range of both paid and free content, we encourage you to look around and see what you find.

Edited October 6 by Lion.Kanzen

[Stan`]

https://play0ad.itch.io/0ad/

We have been there since A23/A24. Didn't change much.