New Civ for Alpha 28+ (extended discussion)

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Delfador said:

But I found another problem: in this picture of the war between Rome and the Cimbri, we see the presence of bows among the Romans. Maybe you will still give the Romans at least some bows in the 28th alpha?

  Hide contents

Well, at least as a secondary weapon, like Anushiya of the Persians?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

These images are not very scientifically rigorous.

[Gurken Khan]

13 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

These images are not very scientifically rigorous.

The way the bow is presented made me think it was loot.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

11 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

The way the bow is presented made me think it was loot.

Very possibly. You also see a guy in the background blowing what looks like a couple of dragon antlers, and a woman about to bludgeon a man with a baby. Romantic-era paintings are about 2% accurate and even less authentic to the depicted period.

[MarcusAureliu#s]

What will germanic Civs be like in terms of civ specific features ?

Edited May 30, 2023 by MarcusAureliu#s

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

The way the bow is presented made me think it was loot.

The paintings of the Neoclassicism and Romanticism period are not faithful to the archaeological reality for example in that period we can see many paintings passed in Trajan's column which in turn are not based on reality. They spend more on technique and beauty than on the real proportions of the equipment.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, MarcusAureliu#s said:

What will germanic Civs be like in terms of civ specific features ?

Ox carts

Similar to Gauls

Some may have nomadic buildings.(semi-nomadic).

 

Very good for raiding and looting.

New weapons like battle axes.

Women could have bonuses to encourage men to fight.

[Delfador]

37 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

New weapons like battle axes.

And I heard that the main weapon of the Germans was a spear.

[Delfador]

53 minutes ago, MarcusAureliu#s said:

What will germanic Civs be like in terms of civ specific features ?

According to the Roman historian Tacitus,

    “The Germans have no shells, no helmets, and their shields are not upholstered with either iron or leather - they are woven from twigs or made from thin painted planks. Only those who fight in the front row are somehow equipped with spears, while everyone else has stakes or short darts burned in the fire."

The results of a quantitative analysis of the finds show that the German armies were small - from several hundred to several thousand professional soldiers. Up to a third of them fought with swords, mostly of Roman manufacture. The rest were armed with spears and darts, defended themselves with shields. Some may have worn armor. All weapons were distinguished by high quality workmanship and decorations: shields were brightly painted, sword hilts and scabbards were supplied with metal plates, belt buckles were covered with silver, etc. Some finds amaze with the luxury of decoration and the richness of silver jewelry. Such weapons, most likely, could only be afforded by the leaders in order to indicate their high status with its help.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Delfador

[Lion.Kanzen]

9 minutes ago, Delfador said:

And I heard that the main weapon of the Germans was a spear.

Like 100% of the Civs.

In any case, what differentiates them is the style of combat.

[Lion.Kanzen]

16 minutes ago, Delfador said:

According to the Roman historian Tacitus,

    “The Germans have no shells, no helmets, and their shields are not upholstered with either iron or leather - they are woven from twigs or made from thin painted planks. Only those who fight in the front row are somehow equipped with spears, while everyone else has stakes or short darts burned in the fire."

The results of a quantitative analysis of the finds show that the German armies were small - from several hundred to several thousand professional soldiers. Up to a third of them fought with swords, mostly of Roman manufacture. The rest were armed with spears and darts, defended themselves with shields. Some may have worn armor. All weapons were distinguished by high quality workmanship and decorations: shields were brightly painted, sword hilts and scabbards were supplied with metal plates, belt buckles were covered with silver, etc. Some finds amaze with the luxury of decoration and the richness of silver jewelry. Such weapons, most likely, could only be afforded by the leaders in order to indicate their high status with its help.

 

 

 

We have already gone through that stage of investigation.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Lion.Kanzen

[Delfador]

12 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

We have already gone through that stage of investigation.

Just great. You will use authentic old Germanic names of buildings and units, right?

https://starlingdb.org/cgi-bin/query.cgi?basename=\data\ie\germet&root=config&morpho=0

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html

https://bosworthtoller.com/

Edited May 30, 2023 by Delfador

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, Delfador said:

Just great. You will use authentic old Germanic names of buildings and units, right?

https://starlingdb.org/cgi-bin/query.cgi?basename=\data\ie\germet&root=config&morpho=0

https://bosworthtoller.com/

Not my expertise but @Genava55

[LetswaveaBook]

On 29/05/2023 at 7:17 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Continuing the discussion from here: 

This topic is not the continuation.

You removed the option for me to say 0ad does not need more factions... I feel outplayed

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

28 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

This topic is not the continuation.

You removed the option for me to say 0ad does not need more factions... I feel outplayed

I mean, the poll was extremely one-sided against your view. So, I guess we can discuss it with or without you.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

This topic is not the continuation.

You removed the option for me to say 0ad does not need more factions... I feel outplayed

Isn't a option.

It is like asking to leave it in the current A27 state.

This type of game is not based on 2-3 factions.

This type of game is based on many possible factions.

 

 

Many Civs factions will end up arriving

Some of them are in the WFG development forums (secret forums).

Edited May 30, 2023 by Lion.Kanzen

[Genava55]

1 hour ago, Delfador said:

Just great. You will use authentic old Germanic names of buildings and units, right?

Proto-Germanic would be the best.

 

Wikipedia:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_terms_derived_from_Proto-Germanic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Germanic_and_Latinate_equivalents_in_English

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Germanic_Swadesh_list

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Proto-Germanic_lemmas

 

Others:

https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/books/pgmc/1-introduction

https://brill.com/display/title/8205

[Delfador]

22 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

These images are not very scientifically rigorous.

The battle of the Kushites with the Chinese is also scientifically ridiculous. And yet... I believe that the ability for all nations to have a basic set of units, as in the Age of Empires 2, is not useless, but on the contrary, with certain allied bonuses, it can change the tactics of playing for a nation.

I am not asking to give elephants to all nations, but to give them the combat units that obviously existed among them.

[Lion.Kanzen]

28 minutes ago, Delfador said:

The battle of the Kushites with the Chinese is also scientifically ridiculous. And yet... I believe that the ability for all nations to have a basic set of units, as in the Age of Empires 2, is not useless, but on the contrary, with certain allied bonuses, it can change the tactics of playing for a nation.

I am not asking to give elephants to all nations, but to give them the combat units that obviously existed among them.

Do not mix pears with grapes (Do not confuse things).

It is ridiculous geographically , but the game far from that seeks to confront factions.

 

As for the references, we always look for the best possible quality and realism as part of the authenticity.

 

Unfortunately the archer is no more prominent than the skirmisher for the Romans.

[Delfador]

6 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Unfortunately the archer is no more prominent than the skirmisher for the Romans.

Will we only see the full set of units in Empires Besieged?

[LetswaveaBook]

On 30/05/2023 at 9:43 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I mean, the poll was extremely one-sided against your view. So, I guess we can discuss it with or without you.

I can't deny that the poll was extremely one-sided against my view.

But the question also seems misleading to me. It is like asking:

"Do you want more cookies?"

Then most people will answer "yes". But with have all-ready 14 flavours of cookies and that feels pretty much the same as all-you-can-eat. What we need is better cookies instead of drowning in an ocean of mediocrity. Have you ever imagined to drown in an ocean of cookies??? I do very much appreciate some of the new feature that Delenda est introduces.

 

Anyway: This is a free and open-source project. So nobody can claim that someone shouldn't invest their time in creating new factions, as everyone is free to do what (s)he pleases.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I can't deny that the poll was extremely one-sided against my view.

But the question also seems misleading to me. It is like asking:

"Do you want more cookies?"

Then most people will answer "yes". But with have all-ready 14 flavours of cookies and that feels pretty much the same as all-you-can-eat. What we need is better cookies instead of drowning in an ocean of mediocrity. Have you ever imagined to drown in an ocean of cookies??? I do very much appreciate some of the new feature that Delenda est introduces.

 

Anyway: This is a free and open-source project. So nobody can claim that someone shouldn't invest their time in creating new factions, as everyone is free to do what (s)he pleases.

There are solutions to please everyone.

 

We may as well just have the factions included before Kushites in tournaments and multiplayer.

 

Before the Kushites no one thought they were many factions.

 

Some people like many shades of red.

 

I, for example, like to collect Canadian lumberjack shirts, all with minimal differences.

[Acanthis]

I voted for a nomadic civ. However, in multiplayer, games are often played on maps that feel quite small. My worry would be that these smaller maps might make nomadic civs feel rather static, but the only way to know is to try. If game performance were increased so larger maps wouldn't lag as strongly, that could be a good thing.

[Obskiuras]

Hello everyone, i vote for germanic tribes (Suebi, Cimbri) the development is almost finished and i would like to see this faction in the base game

[Joe-Lay]

On 31/05/2023 at 11:08 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

It is ridiculous geographically , but the game far from that seeks to confront factions.

I agree that normally Rome wouldn't be fighting the Chinese, but it was also improbable that the Mongols would conquer almost half the known world, so geographical awkwardness is not, I think a major concern. 

Back to the Germans, If we do implement them,

On 30/05/2023 at 2:19 PM, Delfador said:

According to the Roman historian Tacitus,

    “The Germans have no shells, no helmets, and their shields are not upholstered with either iron or leather - they are woven from twigs or made from thin painted planks. Only those who fight in the front row are somehow equipped with spears, while everyone else has stakes or short darts burned in the fire."

The results of a quantitative analysis of the finds show that the German armies were small - from several hundred to several thousand professional soldiers. Up to a third of them fought with swords, mostly of Roman manufacture. The rest were armed with spears and darts, defended themselves with shields. Some may have worn armor. All weapons were distinguished by high quality workmanship and decorations: shields were brightly painted, sword hilts and scabbards were supplied with metal plates, belt buckles were covered with silver, etc. Some finds amaze with the luxury of decoration and the richness of silver jewelry. Such weapons, most likely, could only be afforded by the leaders in order to indicate their high status with its help.

Maybe we could give them massive discounts on unit prices and maybe even with their population cost, while lowering their performance per unit. This could give them an early lead in military prowess due to cheap champions, but possibly a poorer chance at victory late game.

[Duileoga]

On 29/05/2023 at 7:56 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Are the thracians ruled out?

I think the Suebians would a bit more familiar civ structure and thus better received. I totally support the nomadic civs, its just that I anticipate more disagreement on their units and mechanics.

Plus, I think work remains on making the two nomad civs look different.

Buenos días o tardes:

-Yo tengo terminados los Tracios , unidades , edificios , idioma ,héroes etc... el símbolo , las tecnologías y los iconos ya existían entre otras cosas... pero si nadie los quiere los incluiré en un mod aparate con los Mayas , Mochicas , Lusitanos , númidas , garamantes ,tupí-guaraní , ilirios etc...

 

On 29/05/2023 at 11:16 PM, Genava55 said:

But now they have some proto-buildings. People couldn't picture the civ.

-Exacto. Los he discriminado y diferenciado de Griegos , ilirios , Dardanios , Macedonios , Peonios, Dacios . @Genava55 espero que te gustara el resultado.

 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone ¿Solo puede entrar 1 facción? ¿Por qué no 2 o 3 como en Age of Empires en sus expansiones?

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*