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For some of the navy based heroes, maybe being able to train a flagship specifically for them would be a fun option.

I would love to see Civil Unrest in the game. Like when a roman takes over a gaul Civic Center, they would try to rebel against the conquer or separatists try to take over a city and you have to send in your troops to stop them. I think that would be interesting

In DE I made the skiritai into fast hoplites instead of swordsmen. In that way they're a lot like the Eagle Warriors from AOK.

I have determined that heroes can have: 2 auras or abilities or special stats Auras can be ranged/localized or global Abilities/special stats can range from greater attack or speed for that hero, to what building they're trained at, to unlocking units or buildings 1 technology Each hero will unlock some kind of special technology specific to that hero 1 upgrade Example: Horse, Elephant, Berserker mode, heavy armor, something like this. Like "leveling up" your hero. City Phase Examples:

So, Delenda Est is revamping heroes to be a lot more interesting. Along with selecting your preferred hero at the start of the match, heroes will start out on foot, with only economic auras, and then over the phases have more auras and bonuses unlocked. Furthermore, many heroes will be upgradeable to mounted versions in City Phase. What I need help for is determining which heroes get which bonuses when, and also what type of mounts they should receive (horse, chariot, elephant, etc.). Any input, especially if sourced would be appreciated. Trying to push this thing as far as I can.

OK, here's the proposed breakdown for the next alpha: Athenians Since we already have a champion swordsman (Athenian Marine) from the port, the swordsman can either be a mercenary Thracian, citizen hoplite, or champion hoplite. Barracks Athenian Hoplite - citizen hoplite + Athenian Hoplite? - citizen swordsman, either by switching or separate recruitment Psiloi - citizen slinger Thracian Peltast - Thracian mercenary javelineer + Rhomphaiaphoros - Thracian mercenary swordsman (not champion as the deprecating Stoa, but like the Seleucid counterpart, replaces Black Cloak) Gymnasium Epilektos - champion hoplite + Epilektos? - champion swordsman, either by switching or separate recruitment (replaces Thorakites) + Iphicratean Akontistes/Light Peltast - champion javelineer (replaces already-existing Theurophoros) Scythian Archer - champion archer Spartans Barracks Perioikoi Hoplite - citizen hoplite + Perioikoi Hoplite? - citizen swordsman (replaces already exisitng Rhomphaiaphoros) Helot Skirmisher - "citizen" javelineer (akontistes) (Helot Slinger and/or Archer - "citizen" slinger/archer, optional, but some modifications have slingers) Skiritai Commando - elite citizen swordsman + Skiritai Peltast - elite citizen javelineer (replaces already-exisiting Theurophoros) Syssition Spartiatis - champion hoplite + Spartiatis? - champion swordsman (replaces already-existing Thorakites) If the new proposed swordsmen be hoplites, they should also assume the phalanx position as if they wielded spears. The other option is that the hoplites (citizen, epilektos, Spartan) can change from dory to xiphos so they can be swordsmen, and switch back to dory if needed. Make the switching for citizen hoplites require Town Phase or a Town Phase upgrade from the Barracks if you want.

yes

@DerekO I updated the matches with the players inactivity/responsiveness. We should be able to start the Group Stage.

Is this what 0ad copypasta looks like?

I updated the first post, removing notes about "tiers" since that's not really the heart of my argument. My point is that we should have "groups" of civs, which are internally diverse yet balanced. Matchups between civs from different groups are not guaranteed to be balanced. The logical conclusion is that some groups might end up overall stronger than others, but I think the highlight here is that civilisations in history adapted to their rivals and their context, and thus sentences like "Would the Roman have kicked the ass of the Zapotec?" make no sense.

@Freagarach The problem has been solved and I redownloaded the map.

I have now implemented this thanks to @Freagarach @wraitii @Angen and the team. By training Cleomenes, Perioikoi Hoplites and Spartiate Hoplites are swapped for Perioikoi Phalangites and Reformed Spartiate Phalangites. Also, by training Cleomenes you get access to Stone Walls. Training the Classical heroes keeps the hoplites and doesn't unlock Stone Walls (the option doesn't even show up). -> ->

Here's the current Spartan roster for y'all. Thoughts? I was wondering if anyone has any ideas to replace them having a "mount." Part of the new hero system is that once City Phase is reached that the heroes are 'Upgradeable' to something even more powerful.

5 heroes works just fine (1080p resolution). So, we can design 3-5 heroes for every civ.

According to Michael, civ branching was meant to work like Age of Mythology / Age of Empires 3: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/12600-about-the-hellenic-factions/&tab=comments#comment-201511 At some point we gave up on the implementation, but I'm not sure exactly when that happened. A few years later and we were discussing splitting the Celts up into Briton and Gaul. https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/15776-alpha-10-tomfoolery/&tab=comments#comment-237426 It's mentioned in the Alpha 11 release preparation, so that was the release it was first split. https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/16140-alpha-11-planning/page/7/&tab=comments#comment-250234 We aren't limited by any of these things. It would be possible to group civs back together if someone with vision designed how it would work. Leaving them separate can work too. [edit] These are private links, so most won't be able to read them. [edit 2] Nevermind, this is the staff forum.

Probably a mute point... but this thread caught my eye. I had numerous discussions about this exact issue over a decade ago. There was a reason the original game design limited the number of civs. The civs were intended to branch as the game developed. So, for example - when you start the game you choose the generic civ of "celts" then when you reach a certain phase (city) then you are offered the strategic choice of either going with the Britons or the Gauls. Depending on what strategies and tactics you wanted to finish the game with (based on the sub-faction's strengths and weaknesses). Michael didn't agree and opted to separated them all into their own factions.... So... happy balancing guys

I think this is like going backward to what we did for the past years when we started separating and differentiating factions. For instance, technologies are a way to showcase what advantages those civilizations invented or did differently than the others. Wipe that and the game will be blander. Then with roasters if all civs in tiers have the same stats and the same units we shouldn't have different civs. In AOM the factions were the same except for a few quriks