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NoMaDiC CiViLiZaTiOnS

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Xiongnu, Scythians, Huns.

 

I've created preliminary versions of each in my Delenda Est Git repository here: https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est

Obviously the nomadic civs should have some similar attributes.

  • No territory bonus or restrictions
    • Consequently, their buildings have -50% health and loyalty
  • Raiding and Looting bonuses
  • A focus on cavalry
  • Cavalry units can build
  • Livestock bonus, called "Pastoralism."
  • Packable buildings
  • Some kind of raiding/loot bonus
  • Mobile "cart" dropsite that can upgrade into a storehouse or yurt
  • Starts each match with a free Yurt (house)
  • No stone walls, they get Palisades in City Phase instead.
  • Uncovered battering ram = 4 armored dudes carrying a log around
  • Some female military units, either as actor variations or standalone templates

 

But each should have its own civ specific traits.

 

Xiongnu

  • Team Bonus: ?
  • Xiongnu battering ram can upgrade to a covered battering ram
  • More armor techs?
  • Falcon Scout special starting unit
  • Falcon Huntress special hunting/scouting unit
  • Anything?

 

Scythians

  • Team Bonus:  Goldsmith Mastery: Allied gatherers +10% metal gathering rate, allied technologies -10% metal cost
  • A "settlement" option
    • Removes packing ability
    • Adds a territory effect and health bonus to 75% of standard?
    • Unlocks Fortress and Stone Walls
  • Bosporan "Greek" mercenaries
  • Headhunter female champion cavalry
  • Royal Scythian heavy champion cavalry 
  • Anything?

 

Huns

  • Team Bonus: Winds of the Steppe: Allied Cavalry +10% speed and +1 pierce armor
  • No "elite" rank?
  • Starting structures are all in the "Packed" state, meaning they always start in a quasi-nomad mode
  • A wide variety of "mercenaries" based on their subject peoples: Goths, Alemanni, Alans, et al.
  • Traction catapult?
  • Anything? 

 

 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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No bonuses for livestock?

I guess being nomads, they didn’t focus much on agriculture.

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Huns don't try have their own Empire Kingdom near of Roman Empire(Eastern) at last with Attila.

And give great loot advantage to sack cities (CC) what about steal % of enemy stockpile (?) sounds funny and frustrating.

Resultado de imagen para Attila kingdom europe huns -total

Later you need some kind of semi nomads style gameplay. with Germanic refugees like the Vandals.

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Cool! They should have a bunch of female warriors. The Xiongnu and Scythians probably more so than the Huns? For Xiongnu, the women can be embedded in the regular troops, but it would be nice to also have a dedicated "Amazon" unit for the Scythians. I guess that's what you mean with egalitarianism? I've read somewhere that an estimated 1/3 of Scythian warrior tombs belonged to women and there are apparently Xiongnu female warrior tombs as well. 

Xiongnu should have access to walls of rammed earth, stronger than palisades, weaker than stone walls.

Scythians should indeed have access to the most impressive type of fortifications for the "nomadic" civs (heavy stone walls, Greek influence in the Black Sea area), forming a sort of in-between civ with a "settlement" option as you indicated (Scythian Neapolis) and can even have a wonder:

"The mausoleum of the Scythian rulers of Neapolis", also known as the "tomb of Skilurus":

58022486_Neapolis_ScythianMausoleumofSkhilouros.jpg.d3a42eb4332b2fe1b54ed7d634d6ac28.jpg

(or we could just pretend it's a castle? :P)

Scythians should also have access to the most elaborate armours (extensive use of scale and leather, and even Greek influences). They should look like the most opulent "nomadic civ". Their team bonus could be trade related ((proto-)silk road).

 

All three could have heavy loot bonuses:

13 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

And give great loot advantage to sack cities (CC) what about steal % of enemy stockpile (?) sounds funny and frustrating.

Sounds perfectly appropriate! 

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Some good references to look for:

Nomads of the Eurasian Steppes in the Early Iron Age (1995) by Jeannine Davis-Kimball, Vladimir A. Bashilov and Leonid T. Yablonsky.

Kurgans, Ritual Sites, and Settlements: Eurasian Bronze and Iron Age (2000) by Jeannine Davis-Kimball, Eileen M. Murphy, Ludmila Koryakova, Leonid T. Yablonsky

History of Civilizations of Central Asia - Vol. 2: The Development of Sedentary and Nomadic Civilizations : 700 B.C. to A.D. 250 (1994) by Janos Harmatta

Ancient China and its enemies: the rise of nomadic power in East Asian history (2002) by Nicola Di Cosmo

The Empire of the Steppes: a History of Central Asia (1970) by René Grousset

 

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14 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Later you need some kind of semi nomads style gameplay. with Germanic refugees like the Vandals

I could see Germanic civs having such an option in City Phase. Call it "Migration".

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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Individually upgrading CC's could help. "city phase" for the Scythians would give them access to permanent structures? 

For Xiongnu could also provide access to fortifications in "city phase"...

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Following the tech unlocking system, I guess a new "non-requiredtechnology" (yes, thats what came to mind) would be needed. Just like how techs are currently required to unlock somethings, a unit or something could be enabled if a tech is not researched. Not sure how hard it would be to implement though. These things are always full of surprises.

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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Cool! They should have a bunch of female warriors. The Xiongnu and Scythians probably more so than the Huns? For Xiongnu, the women can be embedded in the regular troops, but it would be nice to also have a dedicated "Amazon" unit for the Scythians. I guess that's what you mean with egalitarianism? I've read somewhere that an estimated 1/3 of Scythian warrior tombs belonged to women and there are apparently Xiongnu female warrior tombs as well. 

Huns, yeah, not much attesting to female warriors, while the Scythians and Xiongnu do. I think the Xiongnu could have some female actor variations, while the Scythians would have a couple of actual female unit templates. I could make the Scythian scout cavalry a female unit, maybe "Maiden Scout." And then maybe a "Headhunter" champion cav? "Royal Scythians" seem to have been their ruling class, so that could be a heavily armored mixed-gender champion melee cav?

For the Huns, it would be cool if they could use the lasso in some way as attested. Some kind of special attack which "stuns" the attacker and target in place, allowing for an allied unit to kill the target unmolested. But that requires a general "special attacks" feature.

The Hunnic "cavalry circle" maneuver would be a cool feature/formation. 

Right now, I simulate Parthian Tactics with a tech that gives their ranged cavalry the old "MinRange" kiting effect again, which is good enough for now. Works as intended to annoy the fug out of the enemy. lol

 

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

 Xiongnu should have access to walls of rammed earth, stronger than palisades, weaker than stone walls.

 Certainly noted, and would work nice for Terra Magna too.

 

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Scythians should indeed have access to the most impressive type of fortifications for the "nomadic" civs (heavy stone walls, Greek influence in the Black Sea area), forming a sort of in-between civ with a "settlement" option as you indicated (Scythian Neapolis) and can even have a wonder:

 "The mausoleum of the Scythian rulers of Neapolis", also known as the "tomb of Skilurus":

Right. I think the Scythian "Great Settlement" option could unlock the Fortress and Stone Walls for them. Every civ really needs some kind of Wonder. I thought "Royal Kurgan" burial mound could be that. Perhaps the Hun wonder would be a fanciful, but interesting large horse warrior statue or something.

 

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Scythians should also have access to the most elaborate armours (extensive use of scale and leather, and even Greek influences). They should look like the most opulent "nomadic civ". Their team bonus could be trade related ((proto-)silk road).

Xiongnu armor was quite elaborate as well. Scythian armor definitely had some cross influence with the Persians and Greeks. Some Scythians even wore Greek helmets. Persians adopted many Scythian fashions. We could just say that the Huns would generally have somewhat less impressive armor than the Scyths and Xions. Don't kill me, @Nescio, it was just a general observation. Though, their Gothic and Alan troops may be elaborately armored at the higher ranks. Alans essentially armored as cataphracts. 

 

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

All three could have heavy loot bonuses:

Oh, certainly. Perhaps as a general bonus, plus some techs that can "level up" this effect. We really need Corrals to work as was originally intended, with animal capturing AOE-style, so we can have nomads riding in and stealing your cattle and sheeps. 

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31 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think the "settlement" option for Scythians may need some new code. Currently techs cannot disable things. Only enable or alter stats. Any ideas @stanislas69 or @elexis?

What is it supposed to do ? Is it like the socket feature where you can only put buildings on specific areas or are we talking something completely different.

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55 minutes ago, (-_-) said:

Following the tech unlocking system, I guess a new "non-requiredtechnology" (yes, thats what came to mind) would be needed. Just like how techs are currently required to unlock somethings, a unit or something could be enabled if a tech is not researched. Not sure how hard it would be to implement though. These things are always full of surprises.

Apparently, it wasn't that hard. Still need more stuff from GUI side though. Like tooltips and actually greying it out.

Edit: Might upload for vanilla too after cleaning it up. Really needs this option.

Edited by (-_-)
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by the way we need new icons, the current don't  match with Nomad building. and pack / unpack building.

 

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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gameplay.

  • wagon defenses except Huns they must be Faster  Rush kind.
  • instead outposts; camps.pack / unpack unit, unpack increases LoS.
  • stun and enslave  abilities to Lasso units. capture the unit and make them their bodyguard.
  • high loot bonus. team bonus for Huns you can access to their Auxiliars cavalry (Alans) and Lasso units.
  • Scythian females can access to be upgraded to Hunter cavalry but they need kill at last a male soldier.
  • Scythian female Hero can have bonus vs Male Heroes.
Spoiler

the closet i found is this.

gothrefugees.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop

a little camp: a tent with a campfire and a horse. similar to modern cowboys. both share very similar kind of lives.

vemgoW.jpg

 

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11 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
Spoiler

gothrefugees.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop

It depicts Goth refugees fleeing the Huns and settled by the Eastern Romans in Thracia.

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6 hours ago, Genava55 said:

It depicts Goth refugees fleeing the Huns and settled by the Eastern Romans in Thracia.

yes, is only an example, I'm not saying they are Huns.

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4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

yes, is only an example, I'm not saying they are Huns.

Sorry, I thought it was a mistake.

 

Btw, if someone is interested for some pics about the Scythians:

https://maximus101.livejournal.com/146401.html

https://blog.britishmuseum.org/introducing-the-scythians/

Edit: general pics about nomads

http://steppes.proboards.com/post/30935/thread

Edited by Genava55
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Factions descriptions from the first Europa Barbarorum.

Eastern Scythians (Saka): http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Saka_Rauka

Sarmatians: http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Sauromatae

Parthians: http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Pahlava

Hunnic Warfare in the Fourth and Fifth Centuries C.E.: Archery and the Collapse of the Western Roman Empire (master thesis):

https://digitalcollections.trentu.ca/islandora/object/etd%3A472/datastream/PDF/download/citation.pdf

Nomads of the Eurasian Steppes in the Early Iron Age (1995) by Jeannine Davis-Kimball, Vladimir A. Bashilov and Leonid T. Yablonsky.

https://www.csen.org/Pubs_Sales_Reviews/Nomads/Nomad-188579-00-2.pdf

Edited by Genava55
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The Xiongnu is a very difficult culture to gather information about. I tried to access to some academic articles translated from chinese but even with the accreditation of my university nor the website sci-hub, I don't success to get it.

The Scythian supracultural group seems to be the easiest to get information about. I think it should be ok to put the Sarmatians and the Alani in the Scythian faction.

The Greco-Scythian emblematic kingdom is the Bosporan Kingdom:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporan_Kingdom

https://periklisdeligiannis.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/τηε-bosporan-kingdom-cimmerian-bosporus-part-i/

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?636049-PREVIEW-The-Bosporan-Kingdom

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@wowgetoffyourcellphone, two words: Eagle Hunting

I think it took out a fox in the video, but I've seen video's of these babies taking out wolves as well!!! Would make for a very unique specialized hunting unit. Wouldn't be simple to implement I assume, but sooo epic. Perhaps even as a scout unit, although I'm not sure whether they outfitted their eagles with go-pro's in the BC era. Might have to check up on that. 

Also, why is throat singing so freakin' epic?!?! Some Turkic folk music (that flute, so simple, so perfect...):

 

Top random youtube comment: 

"These people usually hunt wolves and foxes, but occasionally they conquer the world"
 
Edited by Sundiata
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The Scythians should have women amazon-like warriors with lasso abilities. Since this is a huge cultural group, they can easily have different reforms options like the Seleucid. For example Sarmatians cavalry lancers and Saka cataphracts for a traditionnal nomad reform or Bosporan thureophoros and Bosporan Daco-Thracian warriors for a crimean reform. The Bosporan units could even construct special hellenistic-like buildings. 

The Huns could have the eagle ability proposed by Sundiata (awesome idea). For example a unit with an eagle vision ability or simply a better vision. The Huns seem to have better cavalry archery with complex tactics. They could have vassalised germanic units in the late phase. 

The only thing is it ok for cavalry to have a building ability?

Edited by Genava55
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I suggest that you name the nomadic livestock bonus as pastoralism in contrast with sedentary animal husbandry. Nomads are more reliant to livestock than settled folks, thus making them more practiced in animal husbandry than the sedentary communities that prefer plant cultivation as a primary source of food, which they then supplement with livestock.

Nomadic horse breeding tradition. Reduced training time for cavalry units too, compared with non-nomadic factions.

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