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Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26


wraitii
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Should these patches be merged in the Community Mod? II  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Add Centurions: Upgradable at a cost of 100 food 50 metal from rank 3 swordsmen and spearmen. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/27

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      5
    • Skip / No Opinion
      4
  2. 2. Alexander - Remove Territory Bonus Aura, add Attack, Speed, and Attack de-buff Auras https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/26

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      3
    • Skip / No Opinion
      7
  3. 3. Unit specific upgrades: 23 new upgrades found in stable/barracks for different soldier types. Tier 1 available in town phase, tier 2 available in city phase. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/25

    • Yes
      16
    • No
      17
    • Skip / No Opinion
      2
  4. 4. Add a civ bonus for seleucids: Farms -25% resource cost, -75% build time. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/24

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      5
    • Skip / No Opinion
      5
  5. 5. Cav speed -1 m/s for all cavalry https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/23

    • Yes
      13
    • No
      15
    • Skip / No Opinion
      7
  6. 6. Cavalry health adjustments https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/22

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      14
    • Skip / No Opinion
      12
  7. 7. Crush (re)balance: decreased crush armor for all units, clubmen/macemen get a small hack attack. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/20

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      13
    • Skip / No Opinion
      8
  8. 8. Spearcav +15% acceleration. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/19

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      2
    • Skip / No Opinion
      8
  9. 9. Pikemen decreased armor, increased damage: 8hack,7pierce armor; 6 pierce 3 hack damage. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/18

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      13
    • Skip / No Opinion
      8
  10. 10. Rome camp allowed in p2, rams train in p3 as normal, decreased health and cost. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/17

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      3
    • Skip / No Opinion
      5
  11. 11. Crossbow nerf: +400 ms prepare time. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/15

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      13
    • Skip / No Opinion
      12
  12. 12. adjust javelineer and pikemen roles, rework crush armor https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/14

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      20
    • Skip / No Opinion
      9


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@Player of 0AD thanks for the suggestion. I could do it the other way. This is just the way that was first suggested to me. On the other point, I found that the healing ability was mutually exclusive with the ability for the hero to provide a discount, which isn't ideal.

I can certainly make changes, but I would probably just make them for a27 rather than make a new community mod release.

Edited by real_tabasco_sauce
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5 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Why removing the bonus for allied buildings where you garrison Chanakya?

To be honest, I never knew this existed. With that said, I think that removed bonus isn't very useful. 

On the Chanakya changes, I think they are an improvement overall and a pretty big buff to Chanakya because of how he can save a player thousands in resources and time via techs. However, I think the changes highlight how much better Chanakya's bonuses are than Cunobeline's bonus. Cunobeline has the benefit of being more difficult to kill and can attack himself. But Cunobeline is otherwise worse in every single way (res to make, time to make, lack of eco bonus, and a more a more expensive/time consuming building to produce from. I would nerf Chanakya's healing bonus and/or come up with a cool extra bonus for Cunobeline. 

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5 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

did u restart? Also be sure to disable 26.6 first. U might also need to check the folder name in case the zip file from mod.io hasn't given it a new name (like community-modXqu8.zip or something)

Yes I restarted 0AD

And yes I made sure that the zip file is named community-mod.zip

As I said I reinstalled 26.4 that way and it works, but replays and savegames are lost, any idea why?

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48 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Yes I restarted 0AD

And yes I made sure that the zip file is named community-mod.zip

As I said I reinstalled 26.4 that way and it works, but replays and savegames are lost, any idea why?

Check to see if you still have the replays on your HD.

I had the same error until I made sure that the folder name for the old mod was "community-mod." Once I change the folder name and enabled the old community mod I could see my old replays. 

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1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

Check to see if you still have the replays on your HD.

I had the same error until I made sure that the folder name for the old mod was "community-mod." Once I change the folder name and enabled the old community mod I could see my old replays. 

Thanks a lot, this seemed to be the problem. Let's hope everything works now as I renamed the new folder to communit-mod-6

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2 hours ago, Feldfeld said:

Finally something is done about melee/ranged balance

Maybe I'll try it out this weekend

Since A15 the balance of troops was chaotic.

 

And it never took seriously the role of the units or the historical function on the battlefield.

 

That's why that balance was better thought out in DE since it was conceived.

 

But now for the first time without hard counters it has reached the same kind of quality.

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There are many proposed ideas for adjusting non-random buildingAI for better gameplay outcomes, I'm gonna list some here:

  • reduce max arrow count in cc
  • random arrows for cc and fort, but keep non-random for towers
  • increasing arrow damage with phase or blacksmith tech (ranged damage)
  • fixed ranges for buildings, or adjust the default range so that it matches the current default+bonus for a flat map.
  • random arrows default, player click focuses arrows.

I've noticed that the primary change is that the cost/benefit analysis of diving under the cc to get kill is much more complicated now, it used to be that you would only trade hp that would eventually make you need to heal your units in the cc. Now that there is an immediate threat (units actually die) from the cc, a rusher needs to make sure that what they do under the cc is worth losing at least one unit.

At the same time rushers and rush defenders are learning ways to distract and focus cc fire respectively. It's good to see players developing skills to maximize their results for both defense and offense in these scenarios.

 

Edited by BreakfastBurrito_007
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10 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

random arrows for cc and fort, but keep non-random for towers

I’m still learning/adjusting my thinking, but right now, I think this might make sense. I’d like to see how a rush on the wood line works when someone 2x towers it, esp when it is an inf rush. 

For various reasons, I’m not liking any if the other ideas you mention. 

13 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

At the same time rushers and rush defenders are learning ways to distract and focus cc fire respectively.

I don’t think I’ve heard any complaints about focus fire, which is a feature long overdue imo. 
 

18 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I've noticed that the primary change is that the cost/benefit analysis of diving under the cc to get kill is much more complicated now

I have really big concerns about this right now. 

I additionally have really big concerns about it making gameplay too turtle-ly late game because a player cannot stand under CCs/forts for any real amount of time, so melee taking out a CC is much harder and defenders can take out rams too easily. 

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thanks for the suggestions. I will collect the suggestions (and also observations from games) and put together an update in a while. Depending on timing with respect to a27 release candidate(s), it might take the form of another community mod release.

If that is the case, I will probably add in something like this: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D5232

and maybe a couple other a27 features that need more testing.

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I figured I would assemble some of the ideas I have come up with/seen in the multiplayer lobby.

Issues with building arrows:

  • CC has too many arrows/too much firepower, especially for village phase. Its basically a fort with less hp.
  • Sentry towers are overused, especially for denying wood lines early on.
  • Turtling is more prevalent, making it more difficult to push with or without siege.

change options for building arrows (there is a lot of them, so some subset of these would be good):

  • Decrease CC "max arrows" currently this number is 23, which is 1 less than for fortresses.
  • Decrease CC range from 60 meters to 55 or 50 meters.
  • Decrease sentry tower base range by 10 meters to 50m.
  • Increase sentry tower cost by 25 stone. (change upgrade cost to defense tower too)
  • All buildings with arrows: Decrease pierce damage or fire rate, increase default arrows.
    • The idea here is to make garrisoning less impactful for building effectiveness, keeping the un-garrisoned performance the same. Currently a tower with 5 garrisoned units does 6x the damage of the empty tower.
  • back to random arrows except when focused.

Issues with melee rebalance:

  • melee units balloon in strength when ranked up.
  • fights are too quick, units die too quickly.
  • anti-cavalry bonus damage is too strong.
  • Buildings are 12% stronger vs hack.
  • dogs are op.
  • Rams and siege too easy to kill with melee (already been an issue pre-26.6)

Change options for melee rebalance:

  • Remove armor or damage bonus for melee infantry rank ups.
  • Increase melee experience to rank up to match ranged units: (100 -> 125 xp for infantry).
  • Add 5% or 10% hp to all units
  • Slightly reduce anti-cavalry bonus, maybe just for spear cavalry.
  • Use +4 hack armor instead of +5 hack armor for buildings.
  • Reduce dog hp (armor is already 1,1) or reduce dog damage
  • Siege +1 or +2 hack armor.

Other issues and solutions:

  • Elephants are not very useful. Not good enough vs buildings to make their purchase worthwhile.
    • Increase in direct crush, maybe also slight increase in splash attack.
  • Iphicrates is OP
    • Port a27 iphicrates nerf to community mod: range aura, +2 armor instead of +3.
  • Catapult splash damage is negligible:
    • Increase splash damage OR increase splash radius.
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1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Sentry towers are overused, especially for denying wood lines early on.

I think this is needed else cavalry can easily rush, I want towers strong, else what is the point of making the purchase.
I will reduce cost of sentry towers. make it easy to capture in p1 will be good for the rusher.
I personally beginning to like this mod and OP players are also doing same OP stuff they were doing with a little change in strategy.
also reduce cost of champs, I think 0AD needs more champion battle. winning with village phase units is not very rich feel about the game. we need more colorful battles. also it will be better if we can purchase higher rank units or purchase new techs specific to unit like in AOE4 from barracks like we do to cavalry, one more suggestion is add fire weapons to units to destroy buildings may be we can give it as an upgrade or tech from fort. this new feature can counter the turtle players.

we should counter turtle using a new tech, making towers useless is not a good way, people will stop using them, we better introduce a new tech like fire attack by units to take down buildings like it is in age of empires

Edited by leopard
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1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
  • back to random arrows except when focused.

The more I play, the more I think this is the answer. Not sure if it is necessary for towers but I am leaning towards no. 

 

 

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Issues with melee rebalance:

I don't think the meta has really been figured out yet. I think we still need to wait to see how things shake out. With that said...the below are all things that I was independently thinking. 

 

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
  • Increase melee experience to rank up to match ranged units: (100 -> 125 xp for infantry).
  • Add 5% or 10% hp to all units
  • Slightly reduce anti-cavalry bonus, maybe just for spear cavalry.
  • Use +4 hack armor instead of +5 hack armor for buildings.
  •  
  • Siege +1 or +2 hack armor.

I also think there is a general problem with how champions aren't being made as much anymore. I like how melee is being made more now. But that diversity has come at the cost of less cav and champs. Personally, both neither system is better than the other for me. But I do think we could make the current system better to address the cav and champ issues. 

 

 

Edited by chrstgtr
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10 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

CC has too many arrows/too much firepower, especially for village phase. Its basically a fort with less hp

It could be good by reducing the number and then adding with a technology like it was before.Let players invest in improving their city.

Settlement Watch Add arrows to the village/city.

This way no one will complain.

 

RoR_City_Watch.png

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22 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Catapult splash damage is negligible:

  • Increase splash damage OR increase splash radius.

 

Regarding this I would suggest an increase in the radius, perhaps even as a tech, flaming munitions for instance. The reasoning for bigger radius over higher damage is that even with low damage an area attack can indirectly snipe low hp units which is highly useful for a massed battlefield

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23 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Elephants are not very useful. Not good enough vs buildings to make their purchase worthwhile.

  • Increase in direct crush, maybe also slight increase in splash attack

 

Exactly elephants must do a lot of damage(splash) in combat. Even moving should do damage.

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22 hours ago, leopard said:

also reduce cost of champs, I think 0AD needs more champion battle. winning with village phase units is not very rich feel about the game. we need more colorful battles. also it will be better if we can purchase higher rank units or purchase new techs specific to unit like in AOE4 from barracks like we do to cavalry, one more suggestion is add fire weapons to units to destroy buildings may be we can give it as an upgrade or tech from fort. this new feature can counter the turtle players.

I've been talking about fire damage to buildings for a while now.

 

With torches and units carrying vases of tar.

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