Christmas Testing Bundle

[wraitii]

1 hour ago, bb_ said:

The better values are having some realistic turnrates, instead of the almost insta turns that happen in current svn.

What is seen as "clunky" movement, is not caused by turnrates or accelerations at all, they merely highlight the actual issue. Which is "units bumping into eachother all the time".

For what it's worth, I agree with @ValihrAnt that the current values feel clunky for most units. I would essentially make those instant for infantry, hardly noticeable for cavalry, and still lower their impact for elephants and rams. The current behaviour feels out of place for an RTS game in my opinion.

I tend to dislike the imprecision of our ranged units, but that feels more contextual. Also not a fan of homing weapons though.

I don't think these are really about 'dancing' at this point though as that also was fixed via better aiming for most units.

[Radiotraining]

I would be fair to say that the compromise proposed by Alre could - maybe -work, if we really have to. But I don't know, I still fundamentally disagree. I don't see the necessity and is not a game philosophy I would espouse, centered on competitive play. But whatever guys. Do what you like. I'm not in the balancing team and I'm just a simple player. I just find weird that we're really discussing this thing. I thought it was quite -universally- a downgrade but maybe it was just me.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Radiotraining

[chrstgtr]

12 hours ago, wraitii said:

I don't think these are really about 'dancing' at this point though as that also was fixed via better aiming for most units.

It's not. The fixes were never reasonably targeted to fixing the dancing problem and the frequency of people complaining about dancing is very low at this point. Even the people who advocate for the turn rates (or acceleration today) do so by referring to how realistic it looks. This is simply an aesthetic change. Personally, I am not a fan. But alas, here we are, again. 

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

perhaps units should start from a baseline speed and accelerate from there? instead of accelerating from 0.

It may not sound realistic, but it might look less clunky. Also with @alre's formation changes, formations would be less useful for dancing.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

frequency of people complaining about dancing is very low at this point.

+

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

19 hours ago, ValihrAnt said:

I'd much rather the AoE4 approach of homing projectiles to eliminate dancing, but retain smooth movement.

16 hours ago, Radiotraining said:

what? are we really talking about the 100% accurate projectiles? You guys serious?

16 hours ago, alre said:

I don't get it. why not?

Some people may be against homing projectiles due to the visual, or historical accuracy, but to me the number one thing is dumbing down the gameplay. If you remove accuracy stats from ranged units they become functionally equivalent to melee units. I talked to SaidRdz and he said this is a main reason why he gave up playing aoe4.

you keep accuracy for ranged units for the same reason you try to implement attack ground for them, charging for melee units, movement characteristics for horsemen (acceleration can be a start). The reason is to make the units have actionable mechanisms that influence their use. 

[Radiotraining]

11 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

to me the number one thing is dumbing down the gameplay. If you remove accuracy stats from ranged units they become functionally equivalent to melee units

This precisely. I stated that it "defeats the meaning of range units" for this reason. Another (last) thing, I would prefer to have the option to increase accuracy with dedicated techs during the game as part of a deliberate strategic gain, instead of having it fixed to 100% from the start. 

It just sounds like riding a bike with pedal-assistance or singing with the autotune. Yeah, sure, it may be useful in certain occasions, but I rather not have it most of the times. Well, sorry for my intervention. Just a player, nothing else. I'll stop here and won't interrupt the conversation anymore. 

Maybe it could be sorted out better with a mod, in any case, and check such function with it.

[Akira Kurosawa]

IMHO, ranged units + MMORPG's target system = dead and buried game.

[Stan`]

8 minutes ago, MontezumaRevenge said:

IMHO, ranged units + MMORPG's target system = dead and buried game.

We're not at that level of imprecision, though.

[Akira Kurosawa]

12 minutes ago, Stan` said:

We're not at that level of imprecision, though.

One of the most important reason for me to play 0 A.D. and AoE2 is that "non-target" shooting system. Projectiles could make more damage, but they should not be infinity. You can make some scale such "mana" but with arrows quantity, which would be rechargable near barracks or other military buildings. Or you can use RoN:RoL system with mobile support ammo carts/units with recharging aura. In DE mod as I remember, units are able to switch their weapons. Ranged units with no projectiles may switch into military until they didn't recharge their arrows etc.

Edited January 26, 2022 by MontezumaRevenge

[Yekaterina]

Perhaps I can suggest a middle-ground solution to your argument:

Projectiles maintain the same accuracy as before, but the launch speed is near infinity.

This will ensure absolute precision but Not necessarily guaranteed hit. If your archers did aim accurately, then the projectile will hit the enemy unit and there is no chance to avoid projectiles by dancing. However, if your archers aimed inaccurately in the first place then the probability of missing is also 1. 

 

 

After this is implemented, dancing will be obsolete but there will be no unrealistic homing missiles or any additional pathfinding issues. 

[Yekaterina]

5 hours ago, Sevda said:

unrealistic homing missiles

We also need g=9.8 +-0.1 ms^-2 (to 2s.f)

and not some javlins experiencing g=42 right next to some archers with g=17 nonsense