Duileoga Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 -Buenas , busque posibles símbolos de facción y creo que se podría usar los diseños de monedas ; (Como símbolo el elefante) (Un león rugiendo)(Otro elefante) (Extenso catálogo donde escoger "Pero los caballos ya han sido muy usados para representarlos en otros juegos") (un caballo al galope) (La moneda de un elefante; libro francés sobre los númidas)-cuyo también podría aportar información si alguien sabe francés) (creo que aquí ¿se aprecia mejor el relieve del elefante?) Fuentes ; https://www.ma-shops.com/artdesgents/item.php?id=15070 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(monedas númidas) https://www.vcoins.com/fr/stores/lucernae/90/product/kings_of_numidia_juba_i_ae28_circa_6046_bc_zeus_ammonelephant_rare/531115/Default.aspx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(moneda con Juba 1º con elefante)http://www.identification-numismatique.com/t5067-piece-de-monnaie-numide -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Monedas númidas )https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces71142.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Micipsa y león ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 posdata; Hay mucha info de los númidas en francés y tardo mucho en traducir Disculpen las molestias . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki1950 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Sorry guys but I can no longer follow this discussion as Google Translate does not work any longer on these pages Enjoy the Choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Loki1950 said: Sorry guys but I can no longer follow this discussion as Google Translate does not work any longer on these pages Enjoy the Choice What you need translate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Horse iconography is kind interesting later I will post that. There are some french books I can try translate something but is better from french speaker know if something is valuable. @Stan` Edited January 17, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 What do you need exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki1950 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Most of the text posted is in Spanish which was translatable by Google but has stopped working get a "try again" pop up in a endless loop is seems to get confused as there are several differing languages on each page which boils down to the fact that I can no longer follow anything though using copy/paste in a separate Google Translate page may work I have not tried that yet I'm a bit lazy like most humans. Enjoy the Choice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 I will traslate one by one the most important features. @Loki1950 Quote They were the indigenous people of the kingdom of Numidia. They had as their capital Cirta (the current Kef). Sedentary or semi-nomadic Berbers, the Numidians were divided into different tribes, those in the eastern part were the Masilians and those in the western part were the Masesilians. The name "Numidae" or numidian comes from the Greek word meaning "nomad". It seems that the Numidians spoke a Berber language. They had a great passion for horses and a reputation as horsemen; as such they served in the Carthaginian armies. Their religion was animistic and polytheistic. https://erasdelmundo.foroactivo.com/t598-los-numidas from here. no great thing except that brief about Numidians. Quote The list covers the period just before the first Roman mission trained King Sifax's infantry, until the suppression of the Tactfarinas revolt. http://www.campaign-game-miniatures.0catch.com/corvusbelli_ants1.html Miniatures... no great info. Quote Numidia The Schilak or Tamazight were a nomadic tribe of the Camiat race who lived from Morocco to Libya. In Egypt they were known as Tehenu. Later the Greeks would call them Numidians and the Romans, like the rest of the extra-imperial peoples, barbarians, hence their Arab name of ber-reik. Once the attack on Egypt failed, some Tehenu tribes (Tuaregs) went into Africa, reaching as far as the Niger. In the Tassili caves, located in the heart of the Sahara, Lothe discovered, shortly after the Second World War, numerous paintings testifying to his passage. They include very stylized figures of warriors, horses and two or four-wheeled chariots with one, two or three crew members. In L'Oued Lar'ar (Libya) there are 106 figures of two-wheeled chariots and only three of four wheels, as well as half a dozen horsemen, which gives an idea of the importance that the chariot had in this area, where its use was prolonged until the Christian era. Horses were eumetric descendants of the tarpan, and are still bred in Sudan, where they are known as Air or Iforas. In the West they reached the Upper Volta, where another breed known as cotocolí, identical to the Danubian sigynes, would be bred. Further south, the expansion of the Berber horse was stopped by the tsetse fly, hence the wheel would continue in solitary, for the benefit of pottery. In the 5th century BC, the Greek historian Herodotus described the people of the Fezzan garamantes as sedentary farmers who used horse-drawn carts in their battles. This fact was verified in the 20th century thanks to a discovery of rock art in the Jabal Akakus in western Fezzan and in the Jabal al-Uwaynat near the border with Egypt. During the Punic Wars, both the Carthaginians and later the Romans incorporated contingents of numbered horsemen into their armies. Generally they constituted the light cavalry, exploiting to the maximum the speed of their Berber horses, much superior to the Celts and Romans, in harassment missions. King Yugurta tried to give his harkas of horsemen the appearance of a disciplined army, but he did not always succeed because of the indomitable character of the Berber warrior. During the war against Rome, his favorite tactic was to simulate a disorderly retreat, to catch his pursuers off guard on favorable ground. In the end the conflict was resolved in favour of Rome thanks to Sulla's use of a large contingent of Latin cavalry and numbered horsemen from Gauda, the grandson of the overthrown Masinisa. Numbered light cavalry Numbered load in Cannas http://caballipedia.es/La_caballería_en_África (cavalry in Africa). Quote The Numidian tribes participated in the Second Punic War on both sides, both in the Carthaginian and the Roman, when Masinisa became allied with Scipio the African at the end of the war, which was fundamental to Hannibal's defeat at Zama. After the defeat of Carthage, the tribes were unified under the kingdom of Numidia, establishing a Hellenic organization, and annexing Carthaginian territory, under the approval of Rome. These annexations, and the harassment by the Numidian kingdom to Carthage, led to the Third Punic War and the disappearance of Carthage as an independent state, which was annexed to Rome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 3:12 PM, Stan` said: What do you need exactly? http://www.identification-numismatique.com/t5067-piece-de-monnaie-numide extract the most important info (when you have some time). is about coins (monnaie) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 Quote 5) https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?754653 6) http://bennosfiguresforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21601&p=236367 7) https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/wiki/Pelakim_Mashliyim_(Numidian_General_Bodyguard) 8) https://www.taringa.net/+juegos/megapost-numidia-rome-total-war_iz0piUnidades 9) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=hungarian&id=342869852 10) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=451516300 11) https://hesperiana.wordpress.com/2016/09/19/numidians/ 12) https://divideetimperamod.com/masaesyli/ 13) https://www.totalwar.com/blog/masaesyli-roster-reveal/ 14) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?524392-Preview-Mamla-ha-biMassylim 15) https://bucellarii.blogspot.com/2018/06/numidian-elephants.html 16) https://www.mundusbellicus.fr/forum/total-war/total-war-attila/mods-modding/ancient-empires/518697-aperçu-les-numides 17) https://www.moddb.com/news/preview-mamlaha-bimassylim the rest are simply TW forums units no great info. no primary sources. nothing new. is for late developing. nor usable or reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 @Sundiata those patterns are North African or /and Berbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 Carthaginian Mercenaries: Soldiers of Fortune,Allied Conscripts, and Multi-Ethnic Armies in Antiquity https://digitalcommons.wofford.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.ch/&httpsredir=1&article=1010&context=studentpubs Chapter 22 : Carthage and Numidia, 201–149 BC ; in A Companion to the Punic Wars https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781444393712.ch22 Numidian Kings and Numidian Garrisons during the Second Punic War: Coins and History https://www.raco.cat/index.php/Potestas/article/download/301105/390561 How monetarized was Numidian society in Antiquity? https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/58811955/Maria_Cristina_Nicolau_Kormikiari.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3B filename%3DHow_monetarized_was_Numidian_society_in.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200120%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200120T195522Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=e37007445be39f4b82d91100909daefa763cc2e42aee232134762320f05b99c8 La relación de Cartago con los Mauri del África Occidental (Marruecos) http://ojs.unica.it/index.php/caster/article/download/2478/2215 EL MUNDO INDÍGENA Y ROMA EN EL MARRUECOS ANTIGUO: LA RELIGIÓN DURANTE LOS PERÍODOS PRERROMANO Y ROMANO https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/16868190/http___hera.ugr.es_tesisugr_15472954.PDF?response-content-disposition=inline%3B filename%3DEl_mundo_indigena_y_Roma_en_el_Marruecos.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200120%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200120T200247Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=a34f5080c71b3083b33b760db710e63fc1129cf19d1931944218a271fd023e50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Quote Romans in open battle, but later resorted to raids and ambushes, often of mounted infantry operating from the mountains or of cavalry from the steppes or desert fringe. When facing Roman or Byzantine troops Berber guerrillas tried to ambush the enemy in terrain of their own chousing, preferably trapping them in a narrow place or attacking suddenly from all sides. The Berbers also knew enough to hold back some troops as a reserve or to take advantage of a success. Meanwhile their cavalry were organized into loose ‘squadrons’. One problem facing the Romans was, in fact, the sheer number of horses which these Berbers could raise — up to 100,000 per year according to one report. The Romans also regarded the Berbers as brave and mobile, but unreliable, lightly armed, lacking stamina and superstitious. Ef them- selves attacked, the Berbers retreated to mountain- tops, where they built wooden field defences. If from Osprey book https://www.amazon.es/Romes-Enemies-Desert-Frontier-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855321661 https://ospreypublishing.com/rome-039-s-enemies-5-pb Spoiler rushing civilization. they can raise an army fast but is more quantity than quality. from National Museum Algiers. Al Sumaa. Quote Greek and Carthaginian influence is obvious in this man's arms and armour, though such well-equipped warriors were rare in North Africa. His helmet is probably of Carthaginian origin. Quote Berber shields seem to have been of leather, but whereas early Roman writers state that these were small and round, by the early medieval period many Berbers used very large rectangular leather shields known as lamt. Such shields may have originated in Ethiopia or Nilotic Sudan. In this case their spread across the length of the Sahara could be linked with the migration of the Lamtuna Berbers, ancestors of the Tuareg~the famous 'veiled men' of the Sahara. One ancient Berber warrior custom which survived into medieval times was that ofshaving part of the head before battle. Another Berber fashion was the wearing of soft goat-skin cloaks and long, flowing unbelted tunics; in Roman times these only reached the knees, but grew longer during the Muslim Middle Ages. The hooded cloak or humus, which is still characteristic of North Africa, might be based upon the Roman legionary's sagum cloak, but the traditionallitham or man's face veil seen until modern times owed nothing to Arab-Islamic, Roman or Carthaginian influence. have insteresting architecture. Tripolitana Museum Lybia. Hellenistic Numidia. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/hellenistic-west/representing-hellenistic-numidia-in-africa-and-at-rome/778E23EC097AE752DAEA660F5B35BF0C if some else have access to this. Edited January 20, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 Quote Noshei-Romah Mashliyim (Numidian Infantry) Quote was found in a 2nd-century BC Numidian prince's grave at el-Soumaa. Although this example is Numidian, it is very like Assyrian and other eastern styles. Helmets of Greek piloi (Pilos) type are represented on some stelae and coins, while the ‘triangular’-shaped helmets represented in other carvings probably refer to conical helmets of Assyrian typology, originally the most common in the army of Carthage. Only one original helmet of this type has been found, from the Numidian royal grave of El-Soumaa; although dated as 2nd century BC this helmet has a clear Puno-African origin, with typical ear-shaped decorations. Crested bronze helmets were often given to officers (SI, I, 401); and a distinctive helmet of Libyan-Punic type was ‘conspicuous for the horns that curved over his temples’ (SI, I, 415), a detail clearly linked with the cult of Baal-Hammon (SI, III, 10). Helmets of generals were surmounted by a wide crest, that of Hannibal having a scarlet plume with a long, flowing horsetail: ‘The plume that nodded on his head showed a deadly brightness, even as a comet terrifies fierce kings with its flaming tail and showers blood-red fire’ (SI, I, 460ff). From another passages of Silius Italicus (I, 501, 525) Hannibal seems to wear a helmet fitted with additional plumes, probably in imitation of that of Alexander the Great. The chapel of Carton at Salambo contained the ceramic statue of a god wearing a Greek-style armour. This statue probably represented Adad, perhaps the most warlike god of the Phoenician pantheon. Stelae from the sanctuary of Cirta, dating from the 2nd to the 1st century BC, show similar armours on trophies which are carved with much more precision than those from Carthage. A beautiful and precious armour was found in a Punic tomb at Ksour es-Saf in the Byzacena area. It consists of two heart-shaped bronze plates covering the chest and back. The decoration, which is identical on both, shows the helmeted head of the goddess Athena placed below two pectoral discs. This armour is not of local production but comes from a 3rd-century BC workshop in Campania, Italy. It was probably purchased or looted by one of Hannibal’s Libyan soldiers and taken back to Africa. The data from this grave, as illustrated in the recent studies by Fariselli, show that it belonged to a Libyan warrior rather than an Italic mercenary as might initially be supposed. That it was placed in the tomb shows that it was reverently associated with the dead warrior’s memory Spoiler A ssyrian. Quote The iron hetmet from El- Soumaa, 2nd century BC, as teconstructed from many fragments: front and right-side ‘views, and complete front silhouette; compare with Plate 1. Now in the museum atConstantine, Algeria (ancient Cirta), this helmet is estimated to have been 25cm (98in} high It is notable for its combination of a conical shape typical of the Near East, with embossed ears, believed to have been a North African characteristic. http://www.worldhistory.biz/download567/ELI201.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Puno-African Helmet. the ancestor of many easter conical was the urartu helmet. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/kirpichnikov_helmets/helmets.htm Spoiler russian helmets you can found this conical typology is very ancient but still being a ancestor even of Russian helmets even in late Middle age. so this practical design were very successful. So isnt strange Punic as Carthaginian and Numidian have this design in common too. Spoiler probably Phoenician or even Lybian bring this to north Africa. with some characteristic of hellenism similar to Pylos helmet from Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 12 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: @Sundiata those patterns are North African or /and Berbers? I think those patterns may be inspired by the patterns of Berber straw mats/carpets. Not a bad choice imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: with some characteristic of hellenism similar to Pylos helmet from Greece. That's an agema helmet. It's currently used by the Seleucid IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Sundiata said: I think those patterns may be inspired by the patterns of Berber straw mats/carpets. Not a bad choice imo... you have some evidence? can be nice for some else. many people can siscover the game finding this things. 10 hours ago, Stan` said: That's an agema helmet. It's currently used by the Seleucid IIRC. Pylos typology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Buenas , estuve buscando arquitectura nativa númida y lo único que encontré fue esto ; https://books.google.es/books?id=bAJw1Ncbgc8C&pg=PA321&lpg=PA321&dq=viviendas+númidas&source=bl&ots=I1eKpstsBD&sig=ACfU3U0BLv91KXkXjIQO-Dw6Y9XhG9CmPw&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj42KzKxZDqAhV55eAKHXCvAjwQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=viviendas númidas&f=false ( Historia de España . Por Carlos ROMEY) https://books.google.es/books?id=LpOADdkfxmMC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=mapales+númidas&source=bl&ots=sqxHgBuVhX&sig=ACfU3U2WlCPEvqCJszL9lSA0txJjCDjd2w&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi33c2tyZDqAhVvA2MBHXIVBZ0Q6AEwAnoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=mapales númidas&f=false (C. Sallusti Crispi Bellum Iugurthinum ; Historiarum reliquiae ; Ad Caesarem ... Por Sallust) https://books.google.es/books?id=wy6LLlzUmkUC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=viviendas+númidas&source=bl&ots=MeTX3U_G7J&sig=ACfU3U0T2ueZ_7apjvRfST5PBNPMs2xdgg&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj42KzKxZDqAhV55eAKHXCvAjwQ6AEwA3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=viviendas númidas&f=false (La conjuración de Catilina. Guerra de Jugurta Por Salustio) Los Mapales son; De forma alargada , con los costados y paredes curvos , techos combados por los costados y una estructura semejante a la de un navío . Eso me recuerda a las casas largas iroquesas;(también como las que aparecen en Age Of Empire 3) Disculpen las molestias y espero haberle sido de ayuda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Esa imagen del AoE 3es de los Iroqueses, pero igual es similar. Pero una dewcripcion no es lo mismo a una reconstruction. Spoiler Quote There is no hard evidence for these, but they are based on traditional huts made by populations that are ethnically very closed to ancient Numidians and their appearance matches the description in the sources, so I think it is fair to say these are as accurate as possible really... Spoiler Quote towns groups of mapalia were to be found collected, like the Arab or Berber shelters which are pitched outside the modern settlements in North Africa to-day. Son curvos dice, significa hacia afuera o dentro? Voy inclinarme por algo más urbano. Quote http://docplayer.net/42061019-Money-trade-and-trade-routes-in-pre-islamic-north-africa.html Edited June 20, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 @Sundiata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 5:44 PM, Lion.Kanzen said: Esa imagen del AoE 3es de los Iroqueses, pero igual es similar. Pero una dewcripcion no es lo mismo a una reconstruction. Reveal hidden contents Reveal hidden contents Son curvos dice, significa hacia afuera o dentro? Voy inclinarme por algo más urbano. Encontré viviendas bereberes que se pueden usar como ejemplo para esa arquitectura más urbana ; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 El aspecto posible de los mapales sería ; (encontrados en Túnez) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) @Sundiata any idea? Edited March 3, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.