wackyserious Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 I L L Y R I A N S Download Repository: https://github.com/0ADMods/illyrians Quote INFANTRY Generic Name: Illyrian Spearman Specific Name: ??? Class: Spearman. Hacker Armament: Spear Appearance: Basic: Helmet (None) Body Armor (None) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Sandals) Advanced: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Body Armor (None) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Boots) Elite: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Body Armor (Reinforced Linothorax/Lamellar) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Greaves) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - Generic Name: Illyrian Skirmisher. Specific Name: ??? Class: Javelinist. Hacker Armament: Javelin Appearance: Basic: Helmet (None) Shoulder (Animal Pelt) Body Armor (None) Shield (None) Footwear (Sandals) Advanced: Helmet (None) Shoulder (Animal Pelt) Body Armor (None) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Sandals) Elite: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Shoulder (Animal Pelt) Body Armor (None) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Boots) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - Generic Name: Illyrian Archer. Specific Name: ??? Class: Archer. Hacker Armament: Bow Appearance: Basic: Helmet (None) Shoulder (None) Body Armor (None) Shield (None) Footwear (Sandals) Advanced: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Shoulder (Cape) Body Armor (None) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Boots) Elite: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Shoulder (Animal Pelt) Body Armor (Leather Linothorax/Disc plate) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Boots) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - CHAMPION INFANTRY Generic Name: Illyrian Sea Raider Specific Name: ??? Class: Champion Swordsman. Hacker Armament: Sword (Sica) Appearance: Champion: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Body Armor (Leather Linothorax) Shield (Wooden Oval) Footwear (Greaves) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - Generic Name: Illyrian Hoplite Specific Name: ??? Class: Champion Spearman. Hacker Armament: Spear (Dori) Appearance: Champion: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Body Armor (Bronze Cuirass/Reinforced Linothorax/Lamellar) Shield (Aspis) Footwear (Greaves) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - HEROES Generic Name: Agron I Specific Name: ??? Class: Hero Swordsman. Hacker Armament: Sword (Sica) Appearance: Champion: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Body Armor (Leather Linothorax) Shield (Aspis) Footwear (Greaves) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - Generic Name: Bardylis I Specific Name: ??? Class: Hero Cavalry Spearman. Hacker Armament: Spear Appearance: Champion: Helmet (Crested Illyrian) Body Armor (Scale Linothorax) Shield (None) Footwear (Boots) History: ??? Garrison: - Function: - Special: - 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negau_helmet Edited July 31, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 The one with a type I shield below is wearing something with pteruges right? So I could use linothorax on them, I suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, wackyserious said: The one with a type I shield below is wearing something with pteruges right? So I could use linothorax on them, I suppose. @Genava55 Illyrians have some celtic features? Quote The Illyrians were influenced by the Celts in many cultural and material aspects and some of them were Celticized, especially the tribes in Dalmatia[53] and the Pannonians.[54] In Slovenia, the Vače situla was discovered in 1882 and attributed to Illyrians. Prehistoric remains indicate no more than average height, male 165 cm (5 ft 5 in), female 153 cm (5 ft 0 in). Spoiler Quote Illyria appears in Greco-Roman historiography from the 4th century BC. The Illyrians formed several kingdoms in the central Balkans, and the first known Illyrian king was Bardyllis. Illyrian kingdoms were often at war with ancient Macedonia, and the Illyrian pirates were also a significant danger to neighbouring peoples. At the Neretva Delta, there was a strong Hellenistic influence on the Illyrian tribe of Daors. Their capital was Daorson located in Ošanići near Stolac in Herzegovina, which became the main center of classical Illyrian culture. Daorson, during the 4th century BC, was surrounded by megalithic, 5 meter high stonewalls, composed out of large trapeze stones blocks. Daors also made unique bronze coins and sculptures. The Illyrians even conquered Greek colonies on the Dalmatian islands. Queen Teuta was famous for having waged wars against the Romans. After Philip II of Macedon defeated Bardylis (358 BC), the Grabaei under Grabos became the strongest state in Illyria.[31] Philip II killed 7,000 Illyrians in a great victory and annexed the territory up to Lake Ohrid.[32] Next, Philip II reduced the Grabaei, and then went for the Ardiaei, defeated the Triballi (339 BC), and fought with Pleurias (337 BC).[33] In the Illyrian Wars of 229 BC, 219 BC and 168 BC Rome overran the Illyrian settlements and suppressed the piracy that had made the Adriatic unsafe for Italian commerce.[34] There were three campaigns, the first against Teuta the second against Demetrius of Pharos[35] and the third against Gentius. The initial campaign in 229 BC marks the first time that the Roman Navy crossed the Adriatic Sea to launch an invasion.[36] The Roman Republic subdued the Illyrians during the 2nd century BC. An Illyrian revolt was crushed under Augustus, resulting in the division of Illyria in the provinces of Pannonia in the north and Dalmatia in the south. Quote The Illyrians are peculiar in Europe as their origins still instilled debate, controversy and even passionated stances by hitorians, especially local. Nationalistic History aside, the illyrians are know recoignised, with the Thracians, their "Germans" as they were also close each other than the Celts and Germans to the eyes of the Greco-Latins, as the most ancient inhabitants of Europe, with many traces of settlements dating back from the bronze age. Their language was common from the Adriatic Sea to southeastern Italy, both sides of this particular sea, which at one point was almost an "Illyrian Lake". Known since a long time by southern greek city-States, the illyrians were assimilated to unwashed, uncivilized barbarians. The first attested Illyrian civilization was attributed to the Enchelii tribe in the 8th Century. This was a large geographic area, the size of Italy, encompassing modern Albania, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, and part of Serbia. When picturing the safe havens of Illyrian pirates we can now gaze at touristic brochures for Croatia, with pristine seas and high rocky cliffs. If the region is politically diverse and divided today, it was so in the antiquity with a dozen of main tribes and many other client tribes. One of the tribes, the Dardanii, was in effect half-Thracian and half-Illyrian. Their pannonian northern neighbours were also difficult to identify. So here are these tribes/nations/kingdoms and their story. It is quite possible also Bronze Age Greeks knew a northern tribe known as the "Illyri", which passed on by assimilation to encompass the whole region. http://ancient-battles.com/warriors/illyrian-warriors.php Edited July 31, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) Italic Illyrians. MESSAPIANS. Quote The Messapians (Greek: Μεσσάπιοι, romanized: Messápioi; Latin: Messapii) were a Iapygian tribe that inhabited Salento in classical antiquity. Two other Iapygian tribes, the Peucetians and the Daunians, inhabited central and northern Apulia respectively. All three tribes spoke the Messapian language, but had developed separate archaeological cultures by the seventh century BC. The Messapians lived in the eponymous region Messapia, which extended from Leuca in the southeast to Kailia and Egnatia in the northwest, covering most of the Salento peninsula.[1] This region includes the Province of Lecce and parts of the provinces of Brindisi and Taranto today. Starting in the third century BC, Greek and Roman writers distinguished the indigenous population of the Salento peninsula differently. According to Strabo, the names Iapygians, Daunians, Peucetians and Messapians were exclusively Greek and not used by the natives, who divided the Salento in two parts. The southern and Ionian part of the peninsula was the territory of the Salentinoi (Greek: Σαλεντίνους; Latin: Sallentini), ranging from Otranto to Leuca and from Leuca to Manduria. The northern part on the Adriatic belonged to the Kalabroi (Greek: Καλαβρούς; Latin: Calabri) and extended from Otranto to Egnatia with its hinterland.[2] After the conquest of the Salento by the Roman Republic in 266 BC[3] the distinction between the Iapygian tribes blurred as they were assimilated into ancient Roman society. Strabo makes it clear that in his time, the end of the first century BC, most people used the names Messapia, Iapygia, Calabria and Salentina interchangeably for the Salento.[4] The name Calabria for the entire peninsula was made official when the Roman emperor Augustus divided Italy in regions and gave the whole region of Apulia the name Regio II Apulia et Calabria.[5] Archaeology still follows the original Greek tripartite division of tribes based on the archaeological evidence. Quote The origin of the Messapii is debated. The most credited theory is that they came from Illyria as one of the Illyrian tribes who settled in Apulia and that they emerged as a sub-tribe distinct from the rest of the Iapyges. It seems that the Iapyges spread northwards from the Salento.[8][9] The pre-Italic settlement of Gnatia was founded in the fifteenth century BC during the Bronze Age. It was captured and settled by the Iapyges, as they occupied large tracts of territory in Apulia. The Messapii developed a distinct identity from the Iapyges. Rudiae was first settled from the late ninth or early eighth centuries BC. In the late sixth century BC, it developed into a much more important settlement. It flourished under the Messapii, but after their defeat by Rome it dwindled and became a small village. The nearby Lupiae (Lecce) flourished at its expense. The Messapi did not have a centralised form of government. Their towns were independent city-states. They had trade relationships with the Greek cities of Magna Graecia. this illustration can be some early, you noticed by their arcaic style. Quote The Messapians or Messapii were an Indo-European people that inhabited, in historical times, the south-eastern peninsula or “heel” of Italy (Salento, modern Apulia), known variously in ancient times as Calabria, Messapia and Iapygia. Their chief towns were Uzentum (modern Ugento), Rudiae (modern Lecce), Brundisium (modern Brindisi) and Hyria. They spoke the Messapian language. They are often referred to as “the most southerly of the Iapygian tribes”. PICENTES ---Non Italic origin----- Quote The name Picentes or Picentini (Ancient Greek: Πίκεντες, Πικεντῖνοι) refers to the population of Picenum, on the northern Adriatic coastal plain of ancient Italy. Their endonym, if any, is not known for certain. There is linguistic evidence that the Picentini comprised two different ethnicities: a group known to scholars as the "South Picenes" (or South Picenians) were an Italic tribe,[1] while the "North Picenes" (or North Picenians) appear to have had closer links to non-Italic peoples. North Picene, also known as North Picenian or Northern Picene, is an ancient language, believed to have been spoken in part of central-eastern Italy. The evidence for the language consists of four inscriptions dating from the 1st millennium BC, three of them no more than small broken fragments. It is written in a form of the Old Italic alphabet. While its texts are easily transliterated, none of them have been translated so far. It is not possible to determine whether it is related to any other known language. Despite the use of a similar name, it does not appear that North Picene is closely related to South Picene, and they may not be related at all. The total number of words in the inscriptions is about 60. It is not even certain that the inscriptions are all in one language. ---this last part from wikipedia spanish---- In reference to the Picenos, in the main ethnogenesis an exotic pre-Roman civilization of the middle Adriatic but originating in Upper Sabinia and which in the ancient age had as its capital the present city of Ascoli Piceno.1 «Picena regio, in qua est Asculum, dicta, quod Sabini @#$% Ausculum proficiscerentur, in vexillo eorum picus consederat.» --- Before the Romanization of the region there was no predominant urban center among the Picenos, who did not have a state-type organization and therefore did not have the need for a capital. The balance lasted centuries in the Piceno territory until it underwent drastic modifications followed by three events: the occupation of the Piceno territory north of the river Esino by the Gauls Senones, the Battle of Sentino and the foundation of the Greek colony of Ancona which absorbed the preceding Piceno village. Our Timeframe Italy. Core of Illyrians (Delmetae, Daorsi, Ardiaei, Breuci) With the term Illyrians are defined all that tribes that share an authentic language and culture, coming from the East Hallstatt Cultural Facies and living in the area of modern ex-Yugoslavija and Albania. Even if the different Illyrian tribes were quite different one another, being somehow celticized in the north and hellenized in the south, Classical writers identified a common root for all of them, and common habits (for example, the use of tattoo). Illyrians were also famed pirates, and their ships, Lembos, Pristis and Libyrnis, were well known for being very fast and highly maneuverable, and were even copied by more civilized nations like Makedonia. Now I can see why they link with Piceans or Picenes... This are Illyrian houses? Edited July 31, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) Dalmatae (celtic influenced) Quote Archaeology and onomastic shows that the Delmatae were akin to eastern Illyrians and northern Pannonii.[6] The tribe was subject to Celtic influences.[7][8] One of the Dalmatian tribes was called Baridustae[9] that later was settled in Roman Dacia. The archeological remnants suggest their material culture was more primitive than this one of the surrounding ancient tribes, especially in comparison with the oldest Liburnians. Only their production of weapons was rather advanced. Their elite had stone built houses only, but numerous Delmatic herdmen yet settled in natural caves, and a characteristic detail in their usual clothing was the fur cap. Their nomadic society had a strong patriarchal structure, consisting chiefly of shepherds, warriors and their chieftains. Their main jobs had been the extensive cattle breeding, and the iterative plundering of other surrounding tribes and of coastal towns on the Adriatic. Pliny the Elder also mentions a subtribe called the Tariotes. Quote The Dalmatae or Delmatae were a illyrian tribe, which was related with the northern Pannonii and east illyrian tribes. Their name "Delmatae" appears to be connected with the albanian word "delmë, dele" which means sheep in English. They were shepherds and cattle breeders. Although Archaeology shows, that their material culture was more archaic than the other illyrian tribes, their weapon productions was rather advanced. They were also known for fur pelt caps. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=810596157 Quote Pannonians (Latin: Pannonii) was a common name for a group of culturally similar tribes cognate to Illyrians, whoinhabited the southern part of what was later known as Roman province of Pannonia, south of the river Drava(Dravus), and the northern part of the future Roman province of Dalmatia. The Pannonian tribes appear to have been Celticized.[81][82] Later a number of Pannonians settled in Dacia.[83] In the 2nd century BC, the Segestani, one of the Pannonian tribes inhabiting the area around Segestica (modernSisak in Croatia), were attacked without lasting success by consuls Lucius Aurelius Cotta and an unidentified Cornelius. In 35 BC, the Segestani were attacked by Augustus, who conquered and occupied Siscia (Sisak). The restof the Pannonians were not, however, definitely subdued until 9 BC, when their lands were incorporated into theprovince of Illyricum after the Great Illyrian Revolt, conducted by the future emperor Tiberius. In AD 6, the Pannonians, together with the Dalmatians and other Illyrian tribes, revolted, and were overcome byTiberius and Germanicus, after a hard-fought campaign which lasted for three years. Leaders of the Great IllyrianRevolt were Bato of the Breuci tribe and Pinnes[84] from Pannonia and another Baton of the Daesitiates fromDalmatia. After the rebellion was crushed in 9 AD, the province of Illyricum was dissolved, and its lands were dividedbetween the new provinces of Pannonia in the north and Dalmatia in the south. The date of the division is unknown, most certainly after 20 AD but before 50 AD. The Pannonian tribes (Greek Παννόνιοι) inhabited the area between the river Drava and the Dalmatian coast. Earlyarchaeology and onomastics shows that they were culturally different from southern Illyrians, Iapodes, and La Tenepeoples commonly known as the Celts though they were later Celticized. However, there are some cultural similarities between the Pannonians and Dalmatians. Many of the Pannonians lived in areas with rich iron ore deposits, so thatiron mining and production was an important part of their economy before and after the Roman conquest. The Pannonians did not have settlements of importance in pre-Roman times, apart from Segestica[85] that was actually Celtic. Ancient sources (Strabo, Pliny the Elder, Appian of Alexandria) mention few of the Pannonian[86] tribes byname, and historians and archaeologists located some of them. Those tribes were; Spoiler Messapic These tribes (Iapygian or Messapic tribes) did not dwell in Illyria but in the heel of southern Italy. They could have Illyrian origins[140] or some sort of link with Illyria. Ideas for the Emblem. Edited July 31, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Excellent work, @Lion.Kanzen!!! @wackyserious I think the Gauls would make a fine placeholder building set. Illyrians were influenced by the Celts in the North and the Greeks in the south, near Epirus. What do you think would make their bonuses and penalties? Team bonus? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Excellent work, @Lion.Kanzen!!! @wackyserious I think the Gauls would make a fine placeholder building set. Illyrians were influenced by the Celts in the North and the Greeks in the south, near Epirus. What do you think would make their bonuses and penalties? Team bonus? Good At Guerrilla warfare. Piracy Hoplites and Theuros line. Skimishers (both cavalry and infantry) Dogs Lack of siege. No heavy infantery I mean armor (only hoplitic and sword) or expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Lion.Kanzen said: Good At Guerrilla warfare. I really wish we had an ambush mechanic. I have proposed in the past how to do this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 I will focus in many visual archeological evidence. Renacting here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Ooooh... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: I really wish we had an ambush mechanic. I have proposed in the past how to do this. They use Sica and Axe. 2 minutes ago, Sundiata said: Ooooh... I was close to share that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) Quote The sica was a short sword or large dagger of ancient Thracians, Dacians and Illyrians, used in Ancient Rome too, originating in the Halstatt culture. It was originally depicted as a curved sword (see the Zliten mosaic as well as numerous oil lamps) and many examples have been found in what are today Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania. It is also depicted on Trajan's Column; notably the Dacian king Decebalus is depicted committing suicide with one. The Romans regarded the sica as a distinctive Illyrian weapon. The principal melee weapon of the Illyrians was the Sica.[6] According to historian John Wilkes:[7] Although a short curved sword was used by several peoples around the Mediterranean the Romans regarded the sica as a distinct Illyrian weapon used by the stealthy 'assassin' (sicarius) Quote Illyrian weaponry played an important role in the makeup of Illyrian armies and in conflicts involving the Illyrians. Of all the ancients sources the most important and abundant writings are those of Ennius (239 -169 BC), a Roman poet of Messapian origin. Weapons of all sorts were also placed intact in the graves of Illyrian warriors and provide a detailed picture for archaeologists on the distribution and development of Illyrian weaponry. Shields were used among the Illyrians from the end of the Bronze Age, but very little is known about the early shields until the Iron Age. In this period, Illyrian shields were made of wood and leather and as a result no such example has survived.During the Iron Age a metal plate-cover was attached to the shields. The most common Illyrian shield was the circular shield, although northern Illyrians and the Japodes also used an oval or rectangular type. The circular shield was small, and was decorated with embedded circles and semicircles on the sides. It resembled the Macedonian shield of the time, but differed in the number of circles, which were a symbolic decoration. One of the best examples of the Illyrian circular shield, coated in bronze, was found in a Liburnian necropolis in Nin and dates from the 4th century BC. The circular shield was widely used from Glasinac in Bosnia to Albania. They are depicted on Illyrian city coins of Lezhë and Shkodër. Similar to the Illyrian oval shield in northern Illyria was the shield that the Celts brought with them during the Gallic invasion of the Balkans in the 4th-3rd centuries BC. The Celtic shield was wooden and oblong, with an iron bos Spoiler Illyria - Sica Thrace - Rhomphaia Dacia - Falx Serbian Muaeum Their Last king of Ardiaea Gentius (181–168 BC) And thrir Italy "colony" Quote There are numerous testimonies among ancient authors (Pseudo-Scylax, Virgil, Festus, Servius) of a presence of the Daunians beyond the Apennines in Campania and Latium where some towns claimed Diomedian origins. The most notable instance is Ardea, the centre of the Rutulians who were considered Daunians: Vergil writes that Turnus' father was Daunus. Festus writes that a King Lucerus of Ardea fought along with Romulus against Titus Tatius and this is the origin of the name of the Roman Luceres.[ Seudo Illyrian helmet. Rush of boats.... Quote Those men when not using their boats to plunder enemy coasts or shipping, are on the lookout for easy pickings, be it from the enemies that surround them or other Illyrian tribes in their vincinity. Their helmet is a standard Illyrian helmet, simple and trustworthy. Armed with a crude mace, and a rope that they use when they assault enemy ships, to either grab them using hooks, or tie up their slaves after the fact. Rowdy and fierce against unarmed civillians, they tend to flee when armed enemies arrive. Brilliant in ambush and cunning in deceit, they can fill the ranks, but not quite hold them. Historically, Illyrians were notorious as pirates of the Adriatic. Their tribes, used small boats and ambush to offset any quality or quantity of troops stacked against them. They were very succesful. Agathokles of Sicily organised colonising expeditions in the Northern Adriatic, with stopping Illyrian piracy as a stated goal. Later it got worse. In fact Romani first expanded across the Adriatic, as an attempt to stamp off their acts of piracy. Historically, the Illyrioi were a people that inhabited modern Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia and Montenegro. They were greatly influenced by their Hellenic neighbors to the south and their Makedonian neighbors to the east, but managed to stay fiercely independent until conquered by Philippos of Makedonia and Alexandros of Epeiros. That same fierceness allows them to be a reliable and fitting unit for any Epeirotes general that is clever enough to control the wild Illyrioi provinces. Lighter than the Hellenic Hoplites, that they used to fight, and equipped with a different shield, a deffinite Keltoi influence, the Illyrioi Thureophoroi, can hold the line, if needed, but their role was to harass rather than fight, and shower the enemy with spears from afar, not go up against it. At this they excell, as it is the very lack of armor which makes them very agile. Only their bronze Illyrian helmet can be considered armor as well as their thrureos shield. They carry a healty amount of javelins which they throw at the enemy but when it comes to close action with their spears, they leave a lot to be desired. Historically, Illyrioi were hammered by the same force that destroyed Makedonia and killed its king, Keraunos: the Keltoi. As one of the nations to border with them, the Boii nation of them, they did use a lot of their methods in fighting and mixing with their own peltasts, a heavier version was created, the Thureophoroi. While lighter than Hellenic Thureophoroi, they are as good as them or even better when it comes to harassing the enemy and especially pike phallanxes. This very interesting type of helmet was similar to the Japodian round caps. They were made from the skeletons of bushes and painted with clay. Round bronze discs and studs were often embedded around the helmet. There were two varieties, one with a wicker base and one sewn together with chain mail. Up to now thirty Shmarjet helmets have been found. Among the northern Illyrians the bronze helmet developed into the conical or pot helmet.[5] The conical helmet was used in the 6th century BC and sometimes had a plume. From the 5th-4th century BC under the influence of the Etruscans and other Italik peoples, the Negau helmet was used also by the northern Illyrians. The Agrianes who were in close contact with the Macedons and Thracians used the Phrygian type helmet. The most important and widespread helmet was the Illyrian helmet. Helmets of this type have been discovered in many sites in Albania, Bosnia, Croatia (near the coast), Macedonia, Kosovo and Serbia. Many scientists date the oldest Illyrian helmets from the 7th century BC Greece and according to them later helmets found in southern Illyria also from the 7th century BC are imports from Greece. However, other experts, especially the Albanian archaeologist Hasan Ceka, present arguments in favor of the indigenous Illyrian helmet. According to Ceka the Illyrian helmet is an original Illyrian type of helmet dating from the 7th century BC and used up to the 2nd century BC, and not only up to the 4th century BC, as thought earlier. Proof of such late use is offered by depictions of the helmet on Illyrian coins, especially those of king Gentius. Helmets were a privilege limited to the minority of warriors who could afford or obtain them. Again Italy. They have archers too. They used that as mercenary to other kingdoms. Quote Bato (ruled c. 206 – 176 BC[1]) was an Illyrian king of the Dardanian State. Bato was the son of Longarus whom he succeeded and the brother of Monunius II who ruled after him.[2] Bato fought alongside the Romans against Macedon during the Second Macedonian War. Bato is known for using advanced war tactics against Athenagoras. Bato became a major threat to the Macedonians but after the war was over Dardanian and Roman relations soon diminished. Quote The pileus (Greek : πῖλος – pilos, also pilleus or pilleum in Latin) was a brimless, felt cap worn in Illyria, Ancient Greece and surrounding regions, [1] [2] later also introduced in Ancient Rome. [3] The Greek πιλίδιον (pilidion) and Latin pilleolus were smaller versions, similar to a skullcap. The plis, an Albanian felt cap, originated from a similar felt cap worn by the Illyrians, and is worn even today in Albania, Kosovo and surrounding regions. Illyrian Liburna (Liburnia) Edited July 31, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Excellent work, @Lion.Kanzen!!! @wackyserious I think the Gauls would make a fine placeholder building set. Illyrians were influenced by the Celts in the North and the Greeks in the south, near Epirus. What do you think would make their bonuses and penalties? Team bonus? I have a running civ with placeholders now. Sadly, I have already set the templates to Spartan structures, I might change it, depending on the outcome of the discussions here. Does anyone know if the City of Scodra during that time Hellenized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Time to @Nescio they must know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, wackyserious said: Sadly, I have already set the templates to Spartan structures, Surely it would be very simple to change them to Gallic structures. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Total War... Vision. Quote The Ardiaean Dynasty is the most powerful of the Illyrian noble families, founded by King Pleuratus during the 3rd century BC. They are natural sea-borne pirates and raiders, and expansionist in their outlook. Playable: True Expert Seafarers: +2 recruitment slots in all ports Pirates: +250% income from raiding The Illyrians could not be lightly dismissed as barbarians: under powerful warlords such as Bardyllis, king of the Dardanians, they conquered Macedon and installed a puppet ruler in 393BC. It was Phillip II and Alexander the Great who eventually ended Illyrian interference in their affairs. The Illyrians were also pirates, and terrorised the Adriatic for centuries; this was what eventually prompted their subjugation by the Romans. https://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/faction.php?l=en&v=rome2&f=rom_ardiaei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 I could not find data on Scodra, since what I have read described the Southern Illyrrians as Hellenized and the Northern ones Celticized, I assumed that it was Hellenized since Scodra was in the South just atop the Epirote territory. Would be cool to see a Celticized faction with a hoplite champion though, if we switch it to Gallic structure set. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Quote The Ardiaei or Ardian (Ancient Greek: Ἀρδιαῖοι or Οὐαρδαῖοι, Ouardiaei; Latin: Vardiaei)[1] were an Illyrian tribe, residing on territory of present-day Albania and Montenegro, between Adriatic coast on the south, Konjic on the north, along the Neretva river and its right bank on the west, extending to Lake Skadar to the southeast,[2][3] with Scodra as their capital. Polybius (203 BC–120 BC) writes that they were subdued[4] by the Romans at events that occurred at 229 BC. Appian (95–165) writes that they were destroyed[5] by the Autariatae and that in contrast to the Autariatae had maritime power. In the Epitome of Livy they are said to have been subdued[6] by the consul Fulvius Flaccus. Quote Following the defeat of Carthage in the First Punic War in 241 BC, the Roman Republic became a dominant naval power in the Mediterranean. Nevertheless, Rome’s control of the seas was not absolute. To the east of Italy, another power was on the rise. This was the Ardiaean kingdom, ruled by an Illyrian tribe that began to threaten Rome’s trade routes that ran across the Adriatic Sea. At the helm of this kingdom was the capable Queen Teuta. Teuta was the wife of Agron, a king of the Ardiaean kingdom. It was under Agron’s leadership that the Ardiaei became a force to be reckoned with. According to the Roman writer, Appian of Alexandria, Agron had expanded his kingdom by capturing a part of Epirus, as well as Corcyra, Epidarnus and Pharus. In addition, Agron’s fleet was much feared in the Adriatic Sea. In 231 BC, Agron suddenly died, after obtaining a victory over the Aetolians. According to the Greek historian, Polybius, “King Agron, when the flotilla returned and his officers gave him an account of the battle, was so overjoyed at the thought of having beaten the Aetolians, then the proudest of peoples, that he took to carousals and other convivial excesses, from which he fell into a pleurisy that ended fatally in a few days.” As Agron’s heir, Pinnes, was a mere infant when the king died, the Ardiaean kingdom became ruled by Teuta, who acted as queen regent. Although Teuta continued her late husband’s expansionist policy, her actions have been portrayed in a negative light by Polybius. Though this may well have been a biased view based on his focus on Roman histiography. According to Polybius, Teuta had a “woman’s natural shortness of view”, and that she “could see nothing but the recent success and had no eyes of what was going on elsewhere”. Polybius also mentions that Teuta supported the Illyrian practice of piracy, and pillaged her neighbours indiscriminately, as her commanders were ordered to treat all as enemies. It was these piratical raids that would eventually lead the Romans to wage war against Teuta. The Roman Senate had initially ignored the complaints made against the Illyrians by merchants sailing the Adraitic Sea. Yet, as the number of complaints increased, the Senate was forced to interfere. The Romans first employed diplomacy, and sent envoys to Teuta’s court. The ancient sources record that Teuta was not at all pleased with the Roman envoys, and was not reasonable in her dealings with them. Worst of all, the diplomatic immunity of these envoys was breached. Polybius records that one of the envoys was assassinated whilst preparing to leave for Rome, whilst Cassius Dio mentions that some envoys were imprisoned whilst others killed. When news of this returned to Rome, the Romans were outraged, and declared war against Teuta. A fleet of 200 ships was prepared for the invasion, along with a land army. The first target of the Roman fleet was the island of Corcyra, held by Demetrius, who was also the governor of Pharus. In both accounts of Appian and Polybius, Demetrius is said to have betrayed the Illyirians by surrendering Corcyra and Pharus to the Romans. According to Cassius Dio, however, it was Teuta herself who sent Demetrius to hand over Corcyra to the Romans in exchange for a truce. Shortly after the truce, however, Teuta attacked Epidarnus and Apollonnia, causing the Romans to interfere again. Demetrius would later transfer his allegiance to the Romans, as a result of the queen’s capriciousness. Realising that she was no match for the Romans, Teuta surrendered in 227 B.C. According to Polybius, Teuta “consented to pay any tribute they imposed, to relinquish all Illyria except a few places and what mostly concerned the Greeks, undertook not to sail beyond Lissus with more than two unarmed vessels.” Additionally, Appian mentions that Corcyra, Pharus, Issa, Epidarnus and the Illyrian Atintani became Roman subjects. The remainder of Agron’s kingdom was in the hands of Pinnes, whose new guardian was Demetrius. Although Teuta lived for another few decades, there is an interesting story stating that Teuta had jumped off a cliff instead of surrendering to Rome at Risan, on the Bay of Kotor, present day Montenegro. As Risan is the only town on the bay without a seafaring tradition, it is said that this was due to the curse inflicted by the Illyrian queen on the city before she committed suicide. Quote The ancient geographer, Strabo, lists the Ardiaei as one of the three strongest Illyrian peoples – the other two being the Autariatae and the Dardani. Strabo writes;[15] "Because they pestered the sea through their piratical bands, the Romans pushed them back from it into the interior and forced them to till the soil. But the country is rough and poor and not suited to a farming population, and therefore the tribe has been utterly ruined and in fact has almost been obliterated. And this is what befell the rest of the peoples in that part of the world; for those who were most powerful in earlier times were utterly humbled or were obliterated, as, for example, among the Galatae the Boii and the Scordistae, and among the Illyrians the Autariatae, Ardiaei, and Dardanii, and among the Thracians the Triballi; that is, they were reduced in warfare by one another at first and then later by the Macedonians and the Romans" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Could strong naval power be a civ trait? I am thinking of a civilization between the Athenians and the Gauls? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, wackyserious said: Could strong naval power be a civ trait? I am thinking of a civilization between the Athenians and the Gauls? The Pirates faction, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lembus Another ship for @Alexandermb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) Quote After the death of her husband Agron, (250–231 BC)[3] the former king of the Ardiaei, she inherited the Ardiaean kingdom, which included much of Illyria proper, though its exact extent remains unknown,[4] and she acted as regent for her young stepson Pinnes.[5] According to Polybius, she ruled "by women's reasoning".[6] Teuta started to address the neighbouring states malevolently, supporting the piratical raids of her subjects. She also gave the Romans their first pretext to cross the Adriatic with an army; this occurred as they started the conquest of the eastern Mediterranean.[7] Illyrian land prior to Roman conquest Illyrians soon captured and later fortified Dyrrachium (modern-day Durrës, Albania) and Phoenice (which was soon liberated with a truce and a fee).[8] While her ships were off the coast of Onchesmos, they intercepted and plundered[8] some Roman merchant vessels. Teuta's forces extended their operations further southward into the Ionian Sea, defeating the combined Achaean and Aetolian fleet in the battle of Paxos and capturing the island of Corcyra, which put them in position to breach the important trade routes between the mainland of Greece and the Greek cities in Italy.[ Edited July 31, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, wackyserious said: Could strong naval power be a civ trait? I am thinking of a civilization between the Athenians and the Gauls? 5 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: The Pirates faction, lol. 4 minutes ago, wackyserious said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lembus Another ship for @Alexandermb If we had a spawning mechanic, a bonus could be that they periodically spawn a pirate ship (a liburnus or lembus) at their Dock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 I think the best should be to create a common architecture for the Illyrians and the Thracians, mixing Greek and Iron Age traditions. I will see to do a summary of the Thracians for the vanilla as a proposal. @Lion.Kanzen Beware of something about the Illyrians, there are a lot of BS around this cultural group. This is because the Balkans are still very nationalists and the war between the Serbians and the Albanians is not that old. Typically this map is the kind of excessive extension commonly seen on the Illyrians. The Pannonians are not Illyrians, the Veneti neither. The Messapians connection is indeed real but it is probably old (end of the Bronze Age), it could justify some mercenaries and regional units however. 4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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