Civ: Germans (Cimbri, Suebians, Goths)

[Seleucids]

I built the latest version and tried the German civ. Here are some feedbacks specific to this civ's design:

• Overall it looks like Britons ++, because it is the same slinger civ, can use the same build order. However, the inclusion of a citizen class infantry clubman and spear cav instead of sword cav makes them better at spamming cavs and fighting counters. 
• Very strong heroes. I worry that Teutobod might be too OP with his speed bonus and extra health. 
• The weaker ram is kind of a joke unit, as it just dies to towers and any enemy army. But this is fine, just don't train it. 
• The champion clubman raider is giga OP - much higher attack than a regular champion swordsman, much faster but lower cost. It is also available since p2 when other civs don't have the appropriate counters. It's slighly lower hack shield does not affect it that much as you would mix them with other infantry melee in an attack. There isn't a single counter to it; you can't even hide in buildings because they hack down CCs in no time. The only unit I can think of is large quantities of spear cav, but not every civ can field that in P2...

Edited September 9 by Seleucids

[Deicide4u]

31 minutes ago, Seleucids said:

The weaker ram is kind of a joke unit

I believe that it's a nod to Norse Log Ram from Age of Mythology. Now, we just need their voices, too:

 

[Deicide4u]

1 hour ago, Seleucids said:

The champion clubman raider is giga OP - much higher attack than a regular champion swordsman

Yeah, they have the same damage as Kushite Axemen, -1 Hack resistance, but are faster and cheaper in Metal. Also, available in P2.

They should get lower pierce armor, or cost more metal. The damage is fine if their other stats suffer.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 hours ago, Seleucids said:

The champion clubman raider is giga OP - much higher attack than a regular champion swordsman, much faster but lower cost. It is also available since p2 when other civs don't have the appropriate counters. It's slighly lower hack shield does not affect it that much as you would mix them with other infantry melee in an attack. There isn't a single counter to it; you can't even hide in buildings because they hack down CCs in no time. The only unit I can think of is large quantities of spear cav, but not every civ can field that in P2...

Its an Axeman. I welcome this early balance feedback, it helps to make the playtests more serious when we do them.

[Seleucids]

The German civ emblem looks like a meme emoji

 

Are we sire we want to stick with this or use another emblem? My suggestion:

[Gurken Khan]

Nah, the meme serves those humorless dolts right.

Spoiler

"What's the sad face? No world domination for you? Ohhhhhh."

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I was going to suggest that the romans emblem should just be a pizza!

That would be a pretty funny mod to make.

[Arup]

On 10/09/2025 at 8:13 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I was going to suggest that the romans emblem should just be a pizza!

That would be a pretty funny mod to make.

DO IT PLEASE 

[Genava55]

I will share interesting maps and threads from @Maptysk from twitter.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1970760638709354543.html

https://x.com/Maptysk/status/1970760638709354543

Here a copy paste of his thread on the Suebi / Elbe Germanic people :

Map of Archaeological Finds of the Suebi/Elbe germanic Groups and the Alamanni, with Quotes from Tacitus.

The Suebi were the largest and most powerful tribal confederation in Germania, constituting of the Hermunduri, Semnones, Langobards, Warini, Markomanni, Quadi, Naristi, Marsingi and Buri.

High resolution map below:

Spoiler

The Suebi first appear under Ariovistus, invading Gaul in search of new land, possibly leaving the Suebi homeland due to pressure from the Vandals.

A group of finds of the Großromstedt Culture (early Elbegermnaic) along the Rhine possibly allows tracing the Suebi of Ariovistus in the material record.

The Großromstedt Culture also briefly settled large parts of Western Germany, where they possibly contributed to and were later replaced by the Weser-Rhine Germanic Groups.

The Markomanni, prior to their migration to Czechia, most likely lived in the Main area, where they were defeated utterly by the Romans under Drusus that they were forced to migrate.
It was after this point that they came to be ruled by Marbod, a man that parallels Arminius in almost all aspects.

Marbod grew up in Rome, just like Arminius, where he learnt Roman ways, culture, and most important military strategy and organization. Marbod returned to the Markomanni after their defeat to assume leadership, although probably not with Roman consent and sanctioning. Marbod would lead the Markomanni to settle Bohemia, the land which was previously inhabited by the Celtic Boii...

Or was it? Archaeological Evidence actually suggests that Bohemia had been settled by the Großromstedt Culture (Early Suebi) in 40 BC already, 30 years prior to the Markomanni migration. This early Suebi group is called the Planany Group (Plananska Skupina) in archaeological literature. It is plausible that they were the early Quadi.

 

 

Comparing the early Suebic Settlement and Celtic Settlement, it is clear that the Celts were far more populous and settled than the Suebi, and the sites of the Planany Group are much fewer than those of the Boii of the La Tène Culture.

The claim that the Markomanni drove out the Boii is also false. The Boii abandoned their settlements together with the Helvetii to embark to Gaul, and these early Germanic settlers found largely completely abandoned land. This is also visible for Southern Germany, where Germanic Groups moved in around 60-40 BC to find largely empty land, with no reuse of La Tène sites, and far sparse habitations.

 

Around 10 BC, the Markomanni proper arrive into Bohemia, the time of Marbod's Empire is called the Dobrichov Group in archaeological literature, and during this time the southern part of Bohemia was temporarily abandoned. Around 5-3 BC Marbod expands his empire also toward Moravia and the Quadi. It is unclear when exactly the Quadi arrived in Slovakia, but I find it plausible to be between the times of the Markomannic arrival and the expansion of Marbod's Empire.

 

 

The full extent of Marbod's Empire was massive, including the Hermunduri, Langobardi, Quadi, Semnones, Lugii, and possibly the Gotones. The Markomannic empire contested with the federation Arminius had forged, where the two men who both grew up in Rome, to both return to their ancestral tribes to lead them to greatness came to war. Marbod and Arminius were as much parallels as they were inversions of another, as Arminius was a staunch enemy of Rome while Marbod was friendly to Rome and sought alliance with them, and refused Arminius' initial offer for an alliance against Rome.

 

 

 

After Marbod's defeat by Arminius, he was usurped by another Markomanni called Catualda, who was exiled by Marbod in his youth to live amongst the Goths until he returned to his home, probably with Gothic military support, to dethrone Marbod and assume the throne for himself.

This did not last long however, as quickly after the Quadi under Vannius along with the Vandals declared war on the Markomanni and Catualda was dethroned by Vannius, who ruled over both the Markomanni and Quadi until 51 AD. Vannius himself would be deposed by the Hermunduri under Vibilus, who conquered and then settled Markomanni territory in Northern Bohemia and Moravia.

 

 

The other constituent tribes of the Suebi do not have a history as well recorded as that of the Markomanni, but here are what Tacitus had to say on them. I do not wish to paraphrase Germania, as the original text is amazing and worth a read yourself:

 

Back to the origins of the Suebi and the Großromstedt culture:
The Großromstedt culture developed on the basis of the Late Jastorf "Seedorf" phase, with influence from the Celts to their south, but seemingly under occupation by the Vandals since either 150 or 100 BC.

 

The presence of Przeworsk Culture sites in Central Germany is characterizing of the period 150 BC - 50 BC, the "Origo Gentis Langobardorum" possibly mentions this Vandalic presence in speaking of the Langobardic origin myth, in which they were previously called "Winnili", until winning a battle with the Vandals, after which they assumed the name Langobards, which was already recorded in the 1st century AD.

 

 

 

Indeed, we do see evidence of elements moving from the North, in the Langobardic homeland, to the south, mainly the situlae of the Großromstedt Culture, although its other elements develop in Central Germany.

Sometime in the 3rd Century, the Alamanni start appearing, from where they moved southwards and invade the Agri Decumates of the Roman Empire and force the Limes back to the Rhine and Alps.

 

 

Around this time in the 3rd Century, another Suebic Group moves Northeast, driving out the Goths and the Lubus Culture. This group is called the Debczyno Culture, and its unclear what tribe they could be linked to.

 

 

The Hermunduri and Semnones would later evolve into the Thuringians, who also settle Bohemia and as such end the Markomanni. The Langobards would migrate south and take Moravia, then Transdanubia and finally Italy, becoming the Lombards. The Quadi hold out, surviving as the "Danube Suevi", while other Suebi cross the Rhine and invade Iberia, forming the Suebi Kingdom. It is also likely that the Bajuvari, later Bavarians, develop out of the Alamanni.

 

That concludes the thread.

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Genava55