Skirmish map - Egypt (previously "Egypt condensed")

[mimesot]

Progress update:

Ptolenaic specials relocated from thebes to memphis.

Rebuilt a kush city of thebes. I admit, I likes my previous assembly better, but for the moment it should suffice.

I will address the errors and missing entities tomorrow and post the files then.

Greetings

Mimesot

[elexis]

We got at least one, at most two more weeks.

But the sooner, the better.

[mimesot]

That's good news :-)

Additinal questions arise. In the XML-section <ScriptSetting> this line appears.

"Script": "saharan_oases.js"

I gess this might have something to to with the random map generator and is thus an irrelevant line for this sort of map, right?

Another thing is, that I searched the XML for e.g. the great pyramids and the persian inn. These objects didn't cause an error, when I loaded the alpha 22 map in the alpha 23 map editor but were simply gone. No reference to them in the XML any more. The treasures on the other hand were still there but with paths I could change in order to restore them. What might be the reason?

Greetings
mimesot

Edited February 25, 2018 by mimesot

[elexis]

33 minutes ago, mimesot said:

"Script": "saharan_oases.js"

This reveals that you have done the very first generation based on that random map. It should be deleted since it is unused.

If there is no "pyramid" in the XML file of your map anymore, you'll have to place new entities. As they are ruins, they were most likely moved. Perhaps they disappeared from the entity list by opening the map with the broken references and then clicking save.

[mimesot]

Thanks, that explains everything.

I just uploaded a verion compatible with alpha23 in the first post of the thread. No player and environment subversions yet, but they will follow in the next few days, s well as small fixes. You can download thus version for reviewing the map.

 

[elexis]

The black player has two heroes and the temples of that player overlap.

Bit imbalanced with yellow having much free space to build while the others have to use their ships, but that's not that decisive as players already have docks and ships.

"Condensed" is something I wouldn't add to a mapname, so uh, Egypt?

 

[mimesot]

Thanks for the feedback!

• Removed one hero on Thebes (black in skirmish, dark brown in editor, why's that?) player.
• Overlapping temples in Thebes: There are so many overlapping temples, so I guess you are referring to the two apdemak temples. Correct me please, if I'm wrong. I changed those two facing to the south the to be an actor and placed fences beneath them as blockers.
• Balancing Persians: You are right in that the Persian player has the most free space within its starting area in the beginning. This becomes especially true, when you compare it to  Alexandria, who must (!) expand in order to even have enough space for farms. This is why the natural expansion in the delta exists, which of course will be harrassed by the Persian player. On the other  hand, the Persian player lacks starting buildings, has no wonder, libeary or theatron and has the hardest time expanding into new territory.
• Condensed ... I am not happy with that too. It was more of a working title than personal preference. I chose that supplementary word in order to addesse that everything-compressed-into-a-single-spot nature of the map. But the primary reason for having such an addition was simply that I didn't feel It was appropriate to occupy the title “egypt“ all for myself. Didn't you ever plan to create a genuine Egypt map for your portfolio? (Especially since this map starts with full citties and thus does not offer a usual gameplay. A map subversion devoid of any city buildings is planned, but would either need an indestructible atlas-visible-only blocker entity in the stock game or some modding efforts.) I am open to all suggestions.

AND: I uploaded maps with the recent changes (=v 0.20.4) in the first post.

Greetings
mimesot

Edited March 2, 2018 by mimesot

[elexis]

7 hours ago, mimesot said:

I didn't feel It was appropriate to occupy the title “egypt“ all for myself.

That's a true problem! Once the name is taken, were stuck with it since we don't want to delete maps necessarily

But at least for campaigns we can still have maps of that same name without ambiguity. People before us took the good names too (The Nile).

The smaller the area depicted in the map, the worse the problem becomes, since one can't find two different names for the same city, while one can find multiple names for some larger place.

I don't see anyone else creating an egypt map particularly soon, especially not one that is better than yours.

So Egypt should suit well.

[elexis]

I've committed the map in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/21420, but we still need a map description.

Don't speak of recent games, yourself, the pathfinder, missing playtesting or that the map is about getting crucial positions and trade (because the latter is the case on almost all maps).

The position descriptions are good, just needs some general preface.

[av93]

2 hours ago, elexis said:

 

So Egypt should suit well.

The Battle for Egypt, War on Egypt, Egypt at War..?

[elexis]

Well, all of those maps are war maps. Silk Road will be a trade map, but even that will be at war

[av93]

you're right, but Egypt sounds a little plain for me. Just wanted to add a little more of epic for hooking players to play it.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, av93 said:

you're right, but Egypt sounds a little plain for me. Just wanted to add a little more of epic for hooking players to play it.

Ptolemaic Egypt
Land of the Pharaohs

 

[Sundiata]

Since it's mostly Ptolemaic Egypt here, how about the Greek term for Egypt: Aegyptos, or the Latin Aegyptus 

It kind of has that historically romantic flavour, and is still recognisable enough for all..

[mimesot]

19 hours ago, elexis said:

I've committed the map in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/21420, but we still need a map description.

Don't speak of recent games, yourself, the pathfinder, missing playtesting or that the map is about getting crucial positions and trade (because the latter is the case on almost all maps).

The position descriptions are good, just needs some general preface.

I hope I can manage to provide one soon. (busy times)

8 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Ptolemaic Egypt

Indeed, a reference to the time frame is a good idea.

7 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Since it's mostly Ptolemaic Egypt here, how about the Greek term for Egypt: Aegyptos, or the Latin Aegyptus 

It kind of has that historically romantic flavour, and is still recognisable enough for all..

With the Kush in the south, the romans in the north west and other invaders present, egypt split between the traditional and hellenistic influences you could even call it "The last days of egypt". It is interesting to see the AI fight heavily over Memphis while contiually obliterating the place.

Unfortunatly map versions with Cyrene enabled as playable instead of Siwa don't work that well, because battle zones are almost exclusivly shifted to the north. Nothing left for the Thebes to worry about. It just expands happily through the nubian desert and great sand sea.

What actually does work is a 3 vs 3 with the three egyptian parties against the invaders. The problem here is, that the alliance along river nile is quite strong due to obvious geographical reasons. It is necessary to provide the invaders with benefits. Especially giving the southern oasis Kharga to Siwa as a expansion increases the pressure on Thebes incredibly. This balances the game but still leaves Persia in its separete position with basically just two paths for entering the african mainland. I could possible enhance this by creating a shallow place in the red sea (where the small island is located). What do you think?

Greetings
mimesot

 

[mimesot]

On 1.3.2018 at 11:46 AM, elexis said:

Bit imbalanced with yellow having much free space to build while the others have to use their ships, but that's not that decisive as players already have docks and ships.

I addressed the problem and posted a map update. There is now a shallpw seabed in the gulf of suez. This makes it easier for the persians to conquer the red sea territory and allows bypassing the mighty fort, which was created to block the north south route, and not the east west route anyway. I firther fixed some small problems and added some eyecandy to the vast date palm forests in the delta.

Find the update in the first post.
Greetings
mimesot

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

We need some Papyrus flora eye candy for maps like this and other Nile maps.

 

 

Maybe could make it gatherable and passable at the same time? Just a suggestion.

Edited March 8, 2018 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Stan`]

That's a good idea ! I'll add to the official task list. If someone wants to do some Photoshop to create the sprites he/she is welcome.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

That's a good idea ! I'll add to the official task list. If someone wants to do some Photoshop to create the sprites he/she is welcome.

Some individual variants, plus some "clump" variants would be nice.

[Servo]

Quite nice map on 1v3 SP. my best choice would be Seleucid spot in which the only way of having a prolonged game if the Persian AI or Kushite could phase up, train army and invade using the river. The Kushite I guess can manage to go through the land but could be hindered by the Gaia forts and towers which I could just capture then delete. This way the Carthage can easily trade with the Kushite. 

If Carthage won’t try to invade the Roman side, Rome can be captured then use that beautiful zigzag trek for the trade carts though should be halted when there are battles on the north. Sea trade could still be possible though but that northern water gap should be widened so that Carthage could  also trade with the Persian. So far the Carthage can’t recognize the sea trade (maybe the gap is too narrow for their merchant ships?) as they keep on training land carts only that just die along the Gaia area trying to reach the Kushite. 

I will be focusing on this map on my SP it’s just really fun and quite realistic terrain. 

Maybe a bug I notice is a line (kind of old borderline (from square map?) along the Carthage base near the Roman temple Vista and stretching through the sea. It can only be noticed if you look at it in angle from the east of temple vista. Maybe it follows the human player color as I see it blue (my color). Also the Gaia hunts(deer) seems keeping the Roman gate open?

[mimesot]

7 hours ago, Servo said:

Sea trade could still be possible though but that northern water gap should be widened so that Carthage could  also trade with the Persian. So far the Carthage can’t recognize the sea trade (maybe the gap is too narrow for their merchant ships?) as they keep on training land carts only that just die along the Gaia area trying to reach the Kushite.

Maybe a bug I notice is a line (kind of old borderline (from square map?) along the Carthage base near the Roman temple Vista and stretching through the sea. It can only be noticed if you look at it in angle from the east of temple vista. Maybe it follows the human player color as I see it blue (my color). Also the Gaia hunts(deer) seems keeping the Roman gate open?

Hi!

Thanks for posting so many helpful remarks. :-)

The sea trade thing is indeed very strange. I already played games, where the Persians started sea trading with the Carthage via the gulf of Cyrene and Suez channel successfully, but the Romans wouldn't participate in trading for no appearant reason. I just tried to play as Romans and successfully traded via sea with the Persians.

I also hunted down that stupid deer, who was keeping the doors open. (The problem was the deer was marked as belonging to player 6)

Unfortunately I wasn't able to recreate your bug. Would you please post a screenshot.

On 2.3.2018 at 8:40 PM, elexis said:

I've committed the map in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/21420, but we still need a map description.

Don't speak of recent games, yourself, the pathfinder, missing playtesting or that the map is about getting crucial positions and trade (because the latter is the case on almost all maps).

The position descriptions are good, just needs some general preface.

I updateed the map description (and forgot about something, darn it)

I strengthened the persian economy and the memphis military to enhance balancing.

What shall we do about the map name ?

All canges can be found in the first post, update 0.20.7.

Greetings and good night
mimesot

Edited March 9, 2018 by mimesot

[Servo]

I could hardly locate my screenshot 

you can only see it if you move away from perpendicular sight by moving the mouse towards the right  

Edited March 9, 2018 by Servo

[Lion.Kanzen]

F2 to screenshots in the game.

[Guest]

Territory right?

I too have noticed it in some maps that have a jagged terrain. So it’s not a map issue but maybe a bug.

[elexis]

Indeed, we have a ticket about that. I suspect it could be changed in the map by changing a tile here or there, but meh who cares. After phasing it's probably gone too.