Square map

[FaTony]

I've just noticed that some maps are square. How can I make one in Atlas?

[jonbaer]

I don't think you can do it in Atlas directly, once you save the map open the map's XML file and change "CircularMap": true -> "CircularMap": false.

[FaTony]

This must added to GUI.

[jonbaer]

You should probably add it as a ticket item - http://trac.wildfiregames.com/query?status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&component=Atlas+editor&order=priority

[leper]

Square maps are deprecated. So no, they will not be added back.

[jonbaer]

Sorry wasn't aware of that ... good to know.  There only seem to be 3 of them left ...

 ~/grep -R "\"CircularMap\": false" *                                              
scenarios/Arcadia.xml:  "CircularMap": false,
scenarios/Campaign Test Map.xml:  "CircularMap": false,
skirmishes/Watering Holes (4).xml:  "CircularMap": false,

[niektb]

A bunch of random maps are square too

[jonbaer]

Yes good point ...

grep -R "\"CircularMap\" : false" *
amazon.json:        "CircularMap" : false
bahrain.json:        "CircularMap" : false
belgian_uplands.json:        "CircularMap" : false,
caledonian_meadows.json:        "CircularMap" : false,
corsica.json:        "CircularMap" : false
howe_sound.json:        "CircularMap" : false
latium.json:        "CircularMap" : false
marmara.json:        "CircularMap" : false
mediterranean.json:        "CircularMap" : false
ngorongoro.json:        "CircularMap" : false
phoenician_levant.json:        "CircularMap" : false
pompeii.json:        "CircularMap" : false
red_sea.json:        "CircularMap" : false
rouen.json:        "CircularMap" : false
wall_demo.json:        "CircularMap" : false

[fabio]

Apparently many new maps introduced in A21 are square:

https://play0ad.com/new-release-0-a-d-alpha-21-ulysses/

[leper]

That does seem quite unfortunate.

[Palaxin]

1 hour ago, leper said:

That does seem quite unfortunate.

Why not allow a choice between square and circular maps?

[leper]

Lack of polish, inconsistency, them not really being needed. Non-circular maps are also still working, but it does seem strange that we do consider them to be deprecated and then make use of that for new maps.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, leper said:

Lack of polish, inconsistency, them not really being needed. Non-circular maps are also still working, but it does seem strange that we do consider them to be deprecated and then make use of that for new maps.

Need design control. Not only are many new map square but some do not fit the theme of the game.

Edited December 3, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[FeXoR]

On 2.12.2016 at 1:17 AM, leper said:

Square maps are deprecated. [...]

Could you please point me to the reference you took that from? (I couldn't find it in the Design Document or the Technical Design Document)

EDIT: Maybe this (Thanks @Imarok for pointing me to it ):

 

[wraitii]

As far as I remember they were indeed deprecated (I remember for Corsica Vs Sardinia running into that problem, but it made more sense for that particular map so I ignored it).

The "biggest" problem with circle maps is that sometimes you need bigger maps to make them work compared to square, but I don't think that really warrants keeping them.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

2 hours ago, wraitii said:

 

The "biggest" problem with circle maps is that sometimes you need bigger maps to make them work compared to square, but I don't think that really warrants keeping them.

resizing in atlas is a huge pain too.

[Stan`]

There is a patch for that in trac

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

4 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

There is a patch for that in trac

I know. It is aggravating it is not committed.

[leper]

9 hours ago, FeXoR said:

Could you please point me to the reference you took that from? (I couldn't find it in the Design Document or the Technical Design Document)

Likely that forum post, related IRC discussions, and the fact that creating a square map in Atlas requires you to edit the map file by hand for quite a few years.

[FeXoR]

While there are IMO arguments for both I can live with aiming for circular maps.

Would be nice it that where in some documentation. Not entirely sure where to put it...

I'll work on that for random maps.

[FaTony]

Come on guys, square maps are awesome. Don't remove them.

[elexis]

Indeed circular maps are preferable as

• The minimap is round, so square maps leave an ugly border.
• While the screenshots in the release announcement seem fine, round maps look better as they avoid the ugly, sharp, pointy corners.
• The players distribution is more equal and more playable, all players have the same distance to the center, thus are reachable equally from all other players. On square maps, players placed in the corners are hard to reach / have a hard time reaching the others.
• Square maps of the same "mapsize" have 4/pi times (= +27%) more map area ( #4407 ), accounting for some claimed "new a21 lag".

Unfortunately neither _kali, FeXoR nor me were aware of these aspects, nor the old forum threads and irc discussions, before these random square maps were polished by niektb and those three and finished in July and September (Alpha21 wiki). Only recall Yves noticing it on 2016-09-04 in irc in one sentence.

Just setting isCircular to true in the JSON files and adapting the starting positions in the singleBases, strongholdBases array of _kalis maps is technically sufficient, but not artistically. Most of these maps would lose some playability or visually appealing terrain when cutting off the corners. So the heightmap data would have to be retaken with a larger boundary and the prior heightmap fixes (f.e. shoreline smoothing for docks) would also have to be redone :/

Should we entirely remove the support for random square maps as well and consider square random maps not to be a valid choice for non-vanilla 0 A.D. maps (i.e. for modders and players)? The classic random map "Latium" looks like it is intended to be that way and would lose its uniqueness if converted. Not sure how involved changing Corsica & Sardinia, but likely feasible.

If some maps like Amazon, Ngorongoro and Howe Sound are literally too far out, we can also remove them from vanilla (and move them to attachments of a forum thread). It was also proposed to rename them, but it seemed wrong to me not to name them by the geographical region they actually depict (I might be wrong again).