My first impression

[svott]

Hey guys,

I'd love to participate in an open source community, and therefore, I test 0 AD Alpha 19 for 3 weeks.

I am quite impressed about what you guys have done for an open source project. However, there are many small things that I would like to criticize and improve.

Firstly, I am a German student and almost done with my master degree. I play 0 AD on my ultrabook without a graphic card. I find it interesting that the game is still acceptable to play with FPS 30 down to 12. However, I play with 0.75 speed, checked different civilisations and maps, and I loved to play AOM many times.

Sorry, if some points are already mentioned in other threads or tickets. I've cross-read some threads and tickets to get a good impression of the project status.

Some questions, comments, small suggestions:

1. According to the tooltip, a female worker has a 10% bonus effect on male workers. Is it already implemented? If yes, it would be nice to see the radius(!). How large is the influence area? Is the bonus 20% if two female workers are close to a male one?

2. Having a special symbol over a working training building would be nice. I think, in the building phase, where you want to use your resources quite smart, it could be very helpful.

3. The AI is, well, improvable. I know how difficult it is to implement a smart AI. However, I don't see a significant different between medium, hard and very hard. Moreover, if I play a match with one hard and one very hard opponent, the hard one is able to outdo the very hard one.

4. If I play with ceasefire, the expire message could come earlier and more often (for example all 5 minutes one announcement.

5. It is not possible to change the hotkeys in-game, right? This is not nice for guys playing with a German keypad because z and y are transposed (I switch to English keypad using Shift+Alt, so I don't care).

6. Receiving an unmistakable message when a mine or forest is empty would be nice.

7. I think a fishing boat should be smart enough to go to the next (closed) fishing area when the last one is empty. Seeing fishing boats blocking the harbour and find a new fishing area is a waste of time!

8. Also, the routing algorithm for ships is very annoying. I know that the algorithm is still in progress. However, if a none-working ship blocks the path for a ship with a task, the idle ship should make room (I think AOM has nice behaviour)

9. Mauryans: Why are elephants not able to conquer (I don't mean destroying) a building?

10. Mauryans: The tooltip of "Working elephant" says: "Can also assists in constructing buildings". How!?

11. Building "Corral": "Not implemented yet" I don't like hints like that in a tooltip. I think it is only confusing, and can overlook in later patches.

12. Seeing the Line of Sight for defence towers would be nice for a good placement strategy. Generally, I think it is nice to see the LOS of the selected building/unit.

13. I miss the "line chart" after a game has finished as in AOM I really like statistics for many reasons. I could not find a corresponding ticket. Is a feature like this not planned?

14. I miss the "god-eye" ability. I know it is not realistic. However, there is no fun in searching the last boat of an opponent on a huge map.

15. Healers could be useful. However, sent a healer by the mouse to the right place is time-consuming. I suggest that a healer moves automatically in a given (large) area when a he spots an insured unit.

And: It should be visible which unit the healer is healing.

16. Is the "Run" movement of each unit implemented? If yes, how can I let a unit run?

17. It would be better to see when a worker is in the idle state. I know that I could press , or .

18. A soldier stance "don't conquer buildings automatically, only attack units" would also be a very helpful feature

So guys! What do you think about my questions and suggestions? I'd love to contribute patches.

Beeeest, svott!

[xfs]

2. Having a special symbol over a working training building would be nice.

I think it is probably not hard to put the production queue on top of the building. But artistically, you probably want some special effects to represent production, e.g. smoke going up, or people going in and out.

6. Receiving an unmistakable message when a mine or forest is empty would be nice.

Unit AI does not have a problem with looking for the next trees. Mines though, yes, but it only needs a few times of managing.

10. Mauryans: The tooltip of "Working elephant" says: "Can also assists in constructing buildings". How!?

You can just use it as a regular builder.

12. Seeing the Line of Sight for defence towers would be nice for a good placement strategy. Generally, I think it is nice to see the LOS of the selected building/unit.

Defense towers are quite weak right now, though. More nerfing would not help.

15. Healers could be useful.

Healers have no AOE, and take up population count. I think they are far less useful than temples, if not totally useless.

16. Is the "Run" movement of each unit implemented?

Run is used as a hack for units to quickly go into position in a formation. It would only make sense after stamina is implemented.

17. It would be better to see when a worker is in the idle state.

You can also use i-left drag to select idle workers. But really, the GUI should show numbers of how many workers are gathering what, and how many are idling, and then you know to look for them.

18. A soldier stance "don't conquer buildings automatically, only attack units"

You can use Ctrl-q-right click to move attack units only.

[feneur]

You can just use it as a regular builder.

Well, that might give the impression that it could be used to start construction of buildings, which it can't. It can help out with construction though, just right-click on a building that is being built and it will help out

[wackyserious]

3. The AI is, well, improvable. I know how difficult it is to implement a smart AI. However, I don't see a significant different between medium, hard and very hard. Moreover, if I play a match with one hard and one very hard opponent, the hard one is able to outdo the very hard one.

IMHO, battering rams.. (But.. as far as I know, game balance is not a high priority at the current stage of the game development, Wildfire's top priority, ATM is to keep on improving the pathfinder and game performance. Game balance can be tweaked after)

Rams ramming infantry to death is just an unpleasant sight for me to see in-game. It breaks realism.

18. A soldier stance "don't conquer buildings automatically, only attack units" would also be a very helpful feature

I'm also a supporter of a feature similar to that, a "switch default action to destroy or capture" button, hotkey or game option. I mostly destroy low hp enemy buildings around the civil center with clumps of infantry or champs, and leave harder ones to rams. destroying them is faster than capturing, trying to capture buildings lead to more casualties. It would be easier to micro things if that kind of button, game option or hot key would be implemented.

Or disable, "Ram to Infantry and cavalry" and specific "Infantry and Cavalry to Building" attacks for more realistic results.

[wackyserious]

The last few releases became a game of "Rams and champs and other deus ex machina unit", other lesser units were getting pushed aside, specially during late game. It could get really boring since the unit selection/variety in able to achieve victory is very scarce. Even lesser chess pieces could be used to gain a win, if used smartly or strategically.

[Lion.Kanzen]

11. Building "Corral": "Not implemented yet" I don't like hints like that in a tooltip. I think it is only confusing, and can overlook in later patches.

Is very helpful to avoid build a useless buildings or expect features, that are only planned.

[sanderd17]

1. According to the tooltip, a female worker has a 10% bonus effect on male workers. Is it already implemented? If yes, it would be nice to see the radius(!). How large is the influence area? Is the bonus 20% if two female workers are close to a male one?

The range is very small (they almost need to touch), and we are monogamous, so 2 females doesn't change the amount. However, this bonus is still up for debate, as it's computationally intensive, and doesn't alter the gameplay a lot (we don't want people to micro their females around either).

2. Having a special symbol over a working training building would be nice. I think, in the building phase, where you want to use your resources quite smart, it could be very helpful.

This is certainly possible, take a look at http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/components/StatusBars.js for different icons and bars appearing on top of units

3. The AI is, well, improvable. I know how difficult it is to implement a smart AI. However, I don't see a significant different between medium, hard and very hard. Moreover, if I play a match with one hard and one very hard opponent, the hard one is able to outdo the very hard one.

The difference is the gathering speed. Normal uses the same speed as a human player, hard has a 33% gathering bonus, and very hard a 66%. The problem is that this can sometimes cause the AI to be out of resources sooner, while he's not ready yet to move on.

4. If I play with ceasefire, the expire message could come earlier and more often (for example all 5 minutes one announcement.

Sure, you can implement that if you want.

5. It is not possible to change the hotkeys in-game, right? This is not nice for guys playing with a German keypad because z and y are transposed (I switch to English keypad using Shift+Alt, so I don't care).

No, we're missing a good GUI to set that. If you're interested in making a GUI, go ahead. Until now, we need to set it manually: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Manual_Settings

6. Receiving an unmistakable message when a mine or forest is empty would be nice.

Not sure about that, you can find idle units with the button near the minimap anyway

7. I think a fishing boat should be smart enough to go to the next (closed) fishing area when the last one is empty. Seeing fishing boats blocking the harbour and find a new fishing area is a waste of time!

Fishing boats do search new fishing areas, but only in their view (they won't wander off to an unknown place). So they have exactly the same behaviour as other units. Changing that behaviour (and making it different from other units) will be a bit harder, so it might be better to come up with different solutions.

8. Also, the routing algorithm for ships is very annoying. I know that the algorithm is still in progress. However, if a none-working ship blocks the path for a ship with a task, the idle ship should make room (I think AOM has nice behaviour)

This is something that should happen for land units too, not only boats. But this is a difficult problem to tackle, certainly if you're new to the game code.

9. Mauryans: Why are elephants not able to conquer (I don't mean destroying) a building?

They're considered siege engines, and sieges can't conquer.

10. Mauryans: The tooltip of "Working elephant" says: "Can also assists in constructing buildings". How!?

Select the elephant with some workers, and build a builting (preferably close to the elephant, as the elephant is slow to move). The elphant isn't an architect, so can only "help" with building construction, not initiate it.

11. Building "Corral": "Not implemented yet" I don't like hints like that in a tooltip. I think it is only confusing, and can overlook in later patches.

Preveous versions of the game had many tooltips that looked like implemented, but weren't. IMO, this situation is better now (while we can still see what we eventually planned for the feature).

12. Seeing the Line of Sight for defence towers would be nice for a good placement strategy. Generally, I think it is nice to see the LOS of the selected building/unit.

True, not that easy to implement though (we have no good way to visualise any ranges).

13. I miss the "line chart" after a game has finished as in AOM I really like statistics for many reasons. I could not find a corresponding ticket. Is a feature like this not planned?

This would need a new GUI object, not impossible, but some have tried before and found the GUI code quite messy.

14. I miss the "god-eye" ability. I know it is not realistic. However, there is no fun in searching the last boat of an opponent on a huge map.

It's planned to enable players to view the complete map as a technology (that will cost an amount depending on the number of remaining enemies).

15. Healers could be useful. However, sent a healer by the mouse to the right place is time-consuming. I suggest that a healer moves automatically in a given (large) area when a he spots an insured unit.

And: It should be visible which unit the healer is healing.

Like other units, healers move automatically to a new target if the target is in their view. Changing that behaviour won't be so easy.

16. Is the "Run" movement of each unit implemented? If yes, how can I let a unit run?

A "charge" attack is planned (though still very vague), and currently units only run when they join in a formation.

17. It would be better to see when a worker is in the idle state. I know that I could press , or .

True

18. A soldier stance "don't conquer buildings automatically, only attack units" would also be a very helpful feature

Stances need to be rethought and be clearer, so yes.

So guys! What do you think about my questions and suggestions? I'd love to contribute patches.

There are some you propose that aren't too hard (and I gave some pointers), so go ahead if you like (do work on the SVN version of the game, and submit patches to trac, come on our IRC channel (#0ad-dev on QuakeNet) to discuss).

[Stan`]

About the charts there is a patch in trac for that. However it's not following coding conventions so it has to be updated.

[svott]

Thx for all the replies and hints.

About the charts there is a patch in trac for that. However it's not following coding conventions so it has to be updated.

Which ticket do you mean?

Fishing boats do search new fishing areas, but only in their view (they won't wander off to an unknown place). So they have exactly the same behaviour as other units. Changing that behaviour (and making it different from other units) will be a bit harder, so it might be better to come up with different solutions.

Well, the view area is almost nothing

Question: Is it possible to put various fishing areas in a queue *too lazy to try*

The range is very small (they almost need to touch), and we are monogamous, so 2 females doesn't change the amount. However, this bonus is still up for debate, as it's computationally intensive, and doesn't alter the gameplay a lot (we don't want people to micro their females around either).

Hmm, so.. how effective is putting a female worker to a group of miner? As I read the tooltip, I thought the female worker would motivate all male workers working at the mine. So this is not true and the 10% bonus is not really useful is that case?

Not sure about that, you can find idle units with the button near the minimap anyway

Yes, but can I do a suggestion? Make the button invisible, when no worker is in idle state, and make the button more noticeable (like light green instead of black). I think I could implement it as a first useful task (graphic + logic). Open a ticket and I will do it

[niektb]

I've seen Alekusu doing something comparable with the hunter (queuing deers). It was one of his recent videos in the YouTube topic

Assuming that you play Alpha 19, when you select a female, all males in range get an icon hovering above their head (just like happens with the temple or with the rotating mill)

Edited December 28, 2015 by niektb

[svott]

Assuming that you play Alpha 19, when you select a female, all males in range get an icon hovering above their head (just like happens with the temple or with the rotating mill)

Hmpf... I play A19 and I've never seen an icon hovering above their heads. Otherwise I would not ask...

[Stan`]

Here is the link to the ticket[PATCH] Show graphs in the summary screen

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/3403

[niektb]

Hmpf... I play A19 and I've never seen an icon hovering above their heads. Otherwise I would not ask...

[svott]

Well Ritterbrüder, I played with the latest stable, official published A19 Version from 26.Nov. You play with the current SVN version. If I build and run the latest SVN version, I can see the icon yet .... *tollolol.. first-world-open-source-problem*

EDIT: thx @Village Idiot

Edited December 28, 2015 by svott

[niektb]

I'll tell you something: Svn is the only version I have on my PC and that aura visualization was implemented months ago (I know that since I made these icons). I would check and compare your setting on both versions... (Unless something went completely wrong with packaging of course)

BTW, my name is niektb, not Ritterbrüder

Edited December 28, 2015 by niektb

[feneur]

I'll tell you something: Svn is the only version I have on my PC and that aura visualization was implemented months ago (I know that since I made these icons). I would check and compare your setting on both versions... (Unless something went completely wrong with packaging of course)

BTW, my name is niektb, not Ritterbrüder

I just checked and it doesn't appear in A19, so something must have went wrong.

[niektb]

Hmm, the temple works fine though

[av93]

For showing up tower defense range, it would be nice to look into Starcraft II and how it works with defenses or siege tanks.

[fcxSanya]

<...> that aura visualization was implemented months ago (I know that since I made these icons)

Icons were committed/applied 8 months ago indeed (in r16625), but that particular one (buildgather_bonus.png) was used only for Xerxes there.

Displaying it for females was added only on November 30 (in r17335), 4 days after Alpha 19 release.

[auron2401]

The range is very small (they almost need to touch), and we are monogamous, so 2 females doesn't change the amount.

I can't even start to say how F'in amazing that comment is.

Women aren't polygamous, though, right?

one woman can sleep with help 2+ men work better so long as they... touch, yes?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I can't even start to say how F'in amazing that comment is.

Women aren't polygamous, though, right?

one woman can sleep with help 2+ men work better so long as they... touch, yes?