Faction: The Franks

[Lion.Kanzen]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=157139.45

Edited April 19, 2018 by Lion.Kanzen

[wackyserious]

A warmer tone for the wattle and daub.

@stanislas69

[Stan`]

It looks good, BUT the stones were made to keep the hay in place and the roof curves were made to depict hay so it looks weird  that the roof is not flat. 

[wackyserious]

Do you have any reference that I could use?

[Alexandermb]

Nearly done the church:

Spoiler

 

[Stan`]

 

@wackyserious Reference from a museum

[Alexandermb]

Caro church done: 

[Lion.Kanzen]

Guys check boss-shield 

http://sagy.vikingove.cz/tag/shields/

http://deremilitari.org/2014/02/carolingian-arms-and-armor-in-the-ninth-century/

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All of these eighth-century shields were wooden, and at least one was covered on both sides with leather. The low price of shields in the Lex Ribuaria also suggests that Carolingian shields were wooden. Notker’s description of the shields carried by Charlemagne’s army, “in clipeo nihil apparuit nisi ferrum,” was almost certainly exaggeration or invention, as the weight of such a shield would have rendered it too unwieldy to be of value.85  Nevertheless, it seems like that the radial arcs depicted in many manuscripts represent metal strips, riveted to the wooden shields for extra strength and protection.86 Most of the shields in ninth-century manuscript illuminations and ivories also have a distinct rim, similarly fastened by rivets, and several illustrations portray lattice-work mounts attached to the shield just inside the rim.87 Although no ornaments of this design are known from the Continent, similar mounts have been found in the Swedish boat-graves of Valsgarde, where the shields were also reinforced with iron bands riveted to the surface.88

The shield was held by a grip running across the center of the rear of the boss and attached to the shield board on either side. This grip can be seen in several illustrations,89 and the remains of both wooden and iron examples have been discovered.90 In addition to this handle, the shield was also fitted with a carrying strap, enabling it to be slung across the shoulder when required.91 Abbo described King Odo hanging his shield round his neck before charging into battle (“id scutumque simul recipit colloque pependit”),92 and Ermold recalled serving with his shield over his shoulder (“Huc egomet scutum humeris ensemque revinctum / Gessi”).93 ThePsalterium aureum contains a clear depiction of afoot soldier with a shield slung across his back: the strap over his shoulder appears to be secured to the end of the shield grip.94

In battle, the primary function of the shield was of course to ward off hostile blows, and Ermold even claimed that shields could deflect a javelin in flight.95 It has also been suggested that the combination of a light wooden shield and a pointed sugarloaf boss could enable the shield to be used as an offensive weapon, to be thrust forward against an attacker.96

[Alexandermb]

Sorry that picture didn't had parallax enabled:

[Lion.Kanzen]

Except by the middle one all textures seems interesting.

 

[Alexandermb]

This are for now the caro structures we have, my priority is finish those that still are anglo buildings for properly caro buildings. Church replaced now its market and a new desing for Fortress, walls there are plenty of walls desings in this forum somewhere that i can use later but market and fortress have higher priority since temple is done (has about same lenght and height of the roman temple maybe a little more)

[Nescio]

39 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

Aachen Cathedral, the topmost structure, shouldn't be used. Only the central octagon is Carolingian, but you can't see it here, because it's obscured by the later (14th C-20th C) additions.

Also, the straw (?) roofs of the frontal and central structures look quite dark; perhaps they could be made lighter?

1 hour ago, stanislas69 said:

The text on diet is interesting, the drawing of those buildings is even more interesting, but what I personally find most interesting, is the size of those animals in Carolingian times compared to now; it's something everyone should be reminded of from time to time; thanks for sharing!

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Nescio
ce

[Lion.Kanzen]

38 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Aachen Cathedral, the topmost structure, shouldn't be used. Only the central octagon is Carolingian, but you can't see it here, because it's obscured by the later (14th C-20th C)

Is very Gothic, contrast with Romanesque of the other buildings.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

More late Romanesque

 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

https://www.britannica.com/art/Early-Gothic-art

Quote

called early, High, and late Gothic.

 

Early Gothic

This first phase lasted from the Gothic style’s inception in 1120–50 to about 1200. The combination of all the aforementioned structural elements into a coherent style first occurred in the Île-de-France (the region around Paris), where prosperous urban populations had sufficient wealth to build the great cathedrals that epitomize the Gothic style. The earliest surviving Gothic building was the abbey of Saint-Denis in Paris, begun in about 1140. Structures with similarly precise vaulting and chains of windows along the perimeter were soon begun with Notre-Dame de Paris (begun 1163) and Laon Cathedral (begun 1165). By this time it had become fashionable to treat the interior columns and ribs as if each was composed of a bunch of more slender parallel members. A series of four discrete horizontal levels or stories in the cathedral’s interior were evolved, beginning with a ground-level arcade, over which ran one or two galleries (tribune, triforium), over which in turn ran an upper, windowed story called a clerestory. The columns and arches used to support these different elevations contributed to the severe and powerfully repetitive geometry of the interior. Window tracery (decorative ribwork subdividing a window opening) was also gradually evolved, along with the use of stained (coloured) glass in the windows. The typical French early Gothic cathedral terminated at its eastern end in a semicircular projection called an apse. The western end was much more impressive, being a wide facade articulated by numerous windows and pointed arches, having monumental doorways, and being topped by two huge towers. The long sides of the cathedral’s exterior presented a baffling and tangled array of piers and flying buttresses. The basic form of Gothic architecture eventually spread throughout Europe to Germany, Italy, England, the Low Countries, Spain, and Portugal.

[Lion.Kanzen]

The problem with Romanesque...

Quote

Several problems had developed with Romanesque style church.  The major problem was that they easily fell down as builder tried to make them larger.  The rounded arch, while still in use today, could not support the weight caused by the outward thrust of the rounded arches and ceilings pushing on the wall.   The walls were the main support of the ceiling therefore they could only have small opening for windows.  So the Romanesque churches were dark and could be rather dreary on the interior.  Having timber roofs, these churches were subject by fire caused by lightening or sparks from other nearby building that was on fire or during a local uprising.  For further information about Romanesque architecture click on my Romanesque Architecture page.

 

 

THE BEGINNING OF GOTHIC ARCHITECTURE

In 1122, Suger was elected Abbott of St. Denis in Paris. Having served as a trusted councilor under his predecessor, Abbott Adam, he was able to organize the monastery finances, skillfully manage the abbey’s immense estate and play an important political role in France.  He was minister to Louis VI and Louis VII, whose biographies he wrote, and Regent during the Second Crusade (1147-1149). The stained glass window on the right is in the Washington Cathedral.  It depicts Abbott Suger in front of Notre Dame- Paris hold St. Denis in his right hand.

In 1140, Abbott Suger began a renovation of St. Denis Abbey which was the beginning of what we now call Gothic architecture.   Suger had a high theology of light and wanted the abbey filled with light and color.  He first enlarged the ambulatory, the walkway behind the altar.  He did this by using pointed arches instead of the former rounded arches of the Romanesque style.  To these arches he linked flying buttresses and vaulted ceilings.   These components were all tied together.

So Gothic architecture began with a flurry.   The name Gothic was later assigned to this style by those who thought that the exterior, with all those buttresses was ugly, especially those who lived in Italy and had unpleasant memories of the invaders, the Goths.  “It looks like something those terrible Goths would build.” Thus the name Gothic stuck.

One of the fun illustrations of how Gothic system of pointed arches and flying buttresses worked was used with school children at the Washington Cathedral.   We would have two students of equal size stand facing each other with their hands locked to form a “ceiling” of a church.  The docent or teacher would then push down on the locked hands and arms thus causing the student to learn backward.  Those who wanted to be dramatic would actually fall down!  Then we asked two more students to stand behind the first students with their hands pushing against the shoulders of the students in front of them.  The docent would again push on the upraised hands and arms.  The force of the students being the “buttresses” kept the “ceiling” from falling in.

GOTHIC ELEMENTS

The use of the pointed arch rather than the rounded arch allowed for great flexibility in the interior design.  The pointed arch could extend upward to great heights.  Pointed arches would also allow for a greater distance between the columns or piers beneath them.   Also from the top of these piers were arches that crisscrossed the ceilings and were locked together by a boss stone. These ceiling were called vaulted. Pushing against these piers on the outside were the flying buttress.  It all held together.  The weight was not distributed to the wall.  The walls were no longer load bearing so they could have large openings for windows.   Some churches were built with almost totally glass walls such a St. Chappell in Paris.   It has been said that you could removed all of the walls in a Gothic cathedral, and it would still stand.

These four elements - pointed arches, vaulted ceilings, flying buttresses and stained glass windows offered innumerable possibilities.  It is disheartening to me to hear someone say of the great cathedrals, “if you have seen one, you have seen them all”.   NO!! They are all different.  I have not experienced any two cathedrals alike.  Some are taller with a triforium level of various designs, in addition to a variety of clearstory configurations of stained glass.  Some cathedrals are longer than others, some are wider. Even the flying buttresses take on different shapes.  Some cathedrals have small chapels in the ambulatory that extend out of the apse in the back.  Some just have small altars around the ambulatory.  Some have small chapels flanking each side of the nave. As I add pages to Cathedral Quest, the various “quests” that we have taken and the 133 churches that we have visited,  I will be pointing out all of the difference in the Gothic syle. The combination of the Gothic elements are without end.

See a Gothic Elevation.

THE GOTHIC STYLE SPREAD RAPIDLY

When the people of France saw the transformation that Gothic architecture brought to St. Denis, everyone wanted their own Gothic Cathedral.  So all over France great building programs were begun, each with the idea that their cathedral would be bigger and better than their neighbors.  The first Gothic cathedral in France was in Noyons (1140), followed by Laon (1145), St. Malo and Dol - de-Bretagne – both in Normandy (1155), Soissons (1158), Rouen (1160), Notre Dames-Paris (1163), and Chartres (1175). In the short space of 35 years, eight new cathedrals were begun in France.   Many Gothic churches took hundreds of years to build, so as the old architect retired or died, the new architect would make changes that suited him.  He was also able to use new technology and materials for the construction.  It is interesting to see where one architect or period ended and other started in the same church. Gothic architecture was not limited to new churches.  Older Romanesque churches had their weaker parts rebuilt in the Gothic style. So we visited churches that were Romanesque and Gothic.  We even experienced some that added some Renaissance and Baroque styles in their remodeling.  Some churches experienced a number of fires and the parts that were destroyed were rebuilt in the current style much as we do today when remodeling a home or building.

There were six periods in the development of Gothic Architecture:

a.     Early Gothic  (1140 – 1190)

b.     Classical Gothic (1190 – 1230)

c.      Rayonnant Gothic (1230 – 1360)

d.     English Decorated Gothic (1250 – 1350)

e.      English Perpendicular Gothic (1350 – early 1500)

f.       Flamboyant Gothic or Late Gothic (1360 – 1500)

 

 

 

 

GOTHIC CATHEDRALS ARE MORE THAN JUST THE STONES

When one contemplates the great cathedrals and churches of Europe, we cannot limit our thoughts solely to basic components of the architecture alone.  Even though I love to read and study the architecture,  I equally enjoy reading medieval history, both factual and historic novels.   I love the medieval mysteries, most of them involving the church and its clergy in some way.  We have enjoyed studying the art of the period both at the Smithsonian Resident Associates programs and by viewing lectures produced by the Teaching Company.  What a wonderful time we had visiting churches where  we saw the art that we had studied such as the Arena Chapel in Padua and the many churches in Florence.

 

So these cathedrals and churches are much more than just brick and mortar.  They are first of all the result of the skill and inspiration of their architects and builders. Most of these artisans saw the possibility of creating new and different designs  from what another architect had created in the next town yet using the same components of pointed arches, vaulted ceilings, flying buttresses, and stained glass.

 

We can look at these churches ecclesiastically as first of all the seat of the Bishop who held authority over the clergy and members of the community.  The cathedrals also provided positions for other clergy such as deans and canons.

 

Cathedrals can be viewed from a theological position.  The cathedrals after all were built as places of worship and to the Glory of God.  They were thought of as the New Jerusalem.  They conveyed to the visitor a sense of heaven.  I was always moved, as a docent at the Washington Cathedral, when a group of students would walk in and look up uttering a great big “wow”.  The cathedrals evoked and still evoke a sense of “wow”, a sense of awe, a sense of the holy, a sense of another world.  The taller and bigger the cathedral the more the “wow”.  The altar is the place of sacrifice as the Eucharist is celebrated time and time again.   Most Gothic cathedrals are designed so that there is a straight, unobstructed path from the front door to the altar.  You will find some variations such as in the Spanish cathedrals.   Cathedrals are a place where you feel the presence of God.  In Gothic cathedrals this is also felt in the light streaming through the stained glass windows. There is a theology of light.

 

The Gothic cathedrals evoke a lot of emotional responses in addition to those just mentioned.  The experience of a great church involves all of our senses.   As many times as I have been in the Washington Cathedral it is always a new experience just to sit and look at what is surrounding me.   I always found something new, something that would transport me to another realm of my emotions.  There are the sounds of the cathedral that capture our ears, maybe the organ playing in the back ground or a choir singing.  I will never forget our experience in St. Remi in Reims.  We were the only people in the church, and the organist was playing very soft beautiful music. It was literally an awesome experience.

 

Also cathedrals and other churches can be looked at artistically.  Because there was so much wall space, without windows, in the Romanesque churches, paintings soon occupied these space.  The great artists of the Middle Ages filled churches with the wonders of their religious art work.  I would suggest that you explore what art is in the churches that you plan to visit, and learn about it before you visit.  In addition to the paintings, there are the wonderful sculptures in stone and wood.  I will point these out as we examine various churches.  One of my favorite forms of art in Gothic churches is the stained glass windows.  It is breath taking to see walls and wall of beautiful color with the sun shining through and often reflecting these colors in some unexpected places.  (Picture on the left is at St. Denis). Also we think about music as a form of art that became important to worship.  All of the art and music were important as a means of education in a time before books.  The paintings, the statues, and the stained glass all told stories from the Bible, from the history of the church and of the community.  Visitors could “read” the stained glass, a painting or a statue to enlarge their understanding of the Bible or the church.

 

Cathedrals also became the center of community life.   That is where people gathered.  Often the cathedrals were used for purposes other than worship.  They were sometimes the place of the market.  Popular  music events and plays were often performed in the church as they are today.  The building of the cathedrals involved the skill and labor of almost everyone in the community in some way from those who quarried the stone, those who designed the building, those who were the masons, the stained glass artists and makers of colored glass, those who wrote the music, those who carved the statues, those who maintained the building, those who sang in the choir or led the worship, and those who helped pay for it.

 

As I describe the seven years of our quest and the 133 church that we have visited so far, I will point out to you the differences and similarities in architectural designs. I will describe and where possible show the art work. I will share our emotions and the sensations that we have experience. We have had an exciting time on our quests and are anxious to share these.  I hope that no one will say, “once you have read about one, you have read about them all”.

 

http://www.cathedralquest.com/gothic_architecture.htm

[Lion.Kanzen]

@LordGood any pro tip or examples 3D or Age2 mods?

[wackyserious]

@stanislas69 @Alexandermb

[Alexandermb]

The yellowish touch of the middle texture is good but the problem in the roof is the same i had before with some metal and wood textures when baking the shield, if the base colour is dark it may need another colour even more darker for dirtyness but also for little details, can you share the texture pack so i can have an idea how its the roof or from what is made so i can try one on procedural later? 

[wackyserious]

[Alexandermb]

this is some example of what i mean before, the black zones need a strong black to allow be seen from afar whitout become a single colour or loosing a lot of detail since players won't be able to get too much closer to the buildings whitout touching camera configuration (I'm still figuring out what i'm doing). 

Spoiler

Pd that yellowish rock texture is:

Spoiler

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Alexandermb

[Lion.Kanzen]

May be desaturing yellow channel. but still don't annoys me. I'm more worried by roofs.

[Lion.Kanzen]

I'm more worried by this. stone.

[Alexandermb]

1 minute ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

May be desaturing yellow channel. but still don't annoys me. I'm more worried by roofs.

I mean is okay it fits perfectly for have different texture sets, i'm concerned about anglo saxons using same gaul texture set and norse having all full of brown

[Alexandermb]

2 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I'm more worried by this. stone.

That texture set was a tinted one i did with the roman texture pack for make the lorsch abbey since i didn't know how to make textures i just grab the closer one and painted. That can be changed for this stone type properly

Spoiler