Fanatics Are Broken Beyond Repair — The Real Spam Nightmare After Champ Cavs

[king reza the great]

23 minutes ago, TheCJ said:

Also metal is gathered just as quickly as food.

120f 100w takes 240s+133s=373s to gather.

80f 60w 80m takes 160s+80s+160s=400s to gather.

 

So the ratio is pretty much that you can get the resources for 13 normal champ infantry in the time you can get the resources for 14 fanatics. 14 fanatics get decimated by 13 normal champs.

With iq 130 how u compare food with metal? What if u have no extra metal? Can u still make champs?

And how you can speak about amor while people can get fanatics in p2 and ruin the game.

Aslan is a good example. People who spec his games know how he abuse fanatics and ruin all games. Also nothing can counter fanatics when people are in p2.

Edited yesterday at 09:23 by king reza the great

[chrstgtr]

2 hours ago, king reza the great said:

Exactly what you say about me is wrong. Im just want a balanced game.

Almost every time you post a complaint it is because some unit/feature makes your Carth merc cav rush weak. 

2 hours ago, king reza the great said:

As i said already nothing can counter mass fanatics.

Better players disagree. 

2 hours ago, king reza the great said:

As i said already nothing can counter mass fanatics. Its not only about cavs.

Not all cav requires metal. Others have given you examples on how fana can be countered but you just ignore it and repeat your same complaints. 

2 hours ago, king reza the great said:

And also, why fanatics doesnt require metal like other champs? letting players easily make a mass of champs and abusing them? Making a good eco for mass fanatics is simple. Dont tell me not all able to do that.

This doesn't really matter. Food is gathered more slowly and is also more vulnerable compared to metal. The only challenge with metal is that it sometimes runs out but that is less of a problem since the maps were redone to spam more metal. Games are rarely won because one side runs out of metal faster than the other, and when it does occur it is usually because the side running out of metal squandered their champs/mercs with a bad KD, which is the actual reason why they lost. Personally, I like that fana have different input costs because it allows for more diverse strategies. 

(@TheCJ: you aren't considering upgrades--metal and farms are both collected at the same rate without upgrades but food upgrades increase speed by 20% while metal upgrades increase speed by 25%. It nets out to where food is about 12% slower in p3 for most civs)

[Dakara]

Reduce their damage by 2. Increases food cost by 10 and piercing armor by 1.

[TheCJ]

8 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

you aren't considering upgrades--metal and farms are both collected at the same rate without upgrades but food upgrades increase speed by 20% while metal upgrades increase speed by 25%. It nets out to where food is about 12% slower in p3 for most civs

true and thanks, but that also comes at a cost, since the fanatic player doesnt have to get the metal upgrades at all, while the normal champ player has to. Of course thats a one-time investment, but it will still matter since games dont go that long anyways.

(Also arent gauls the ones with the extra food upgrade)

Edited yesterday at 18:29 by TheCJ

[king reza the great]

9 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

players

If there is a better player here i would 1v1 him rated 

Also i 1v1 you too if u believe u r better.

No player here could counter fanatics abuse that aslan uses. Even strong players. if some players claims could do it, lets they share the replay.

[Servo]

Aslan is too good. In one of my spectated game he used 8 temple and attacked the opponents with waves after waves of fanatics and at the same time sending food and wood to teammates!

[Dakara]

5 hours ago, Servo said:

Aslan is too good. In one of my spectated game he used 8 temple and attacked the opponents with waves after waves of fanatics and at the same time sending food and wood to teammates!

It means what? the fanatic don't cost enought ? how we counter this strategy? the main issue is the rush in eco no ? this unit shouldnt be so straong against no cav unit no? what people think?

[king reza the great]

1 hour ago, Dakara said:

It means what? the fanatic don't cost enought ? how we counter this strategy? the main issue is the rush in eco no ? this unit shouldnt be so straong against no cav unit no? what people think?

 I sure non of the players who say fanatics arent broken able to counter fatanics rush in p2.

Because they rarely play. Not in the op th games and not experienced that.

They just ready to stop people who try to help balancing the game.

I think developers should read this post. Idk them. Maybe somebody tag them here?

[Player of 0AD]

15 hours ago, king reza the great said:

If there is a better player here i would 1v1 him rated 

Also i 1v1 you too if u believe u r better.

No player here could counter fanatics abuse that aslan uses. Even strong players. if some players claims could do it, lets they share the replay.

Roses are red,

violets are blue,
there is always some Aslan
who's better than you

[Deicide4u]

On 06/08/2025 at 5:22 AM, king reza the great said:

Aslan is a good example. People who spec his games know how he abuse fanatics and ruin all games. Also nothing can counter fanatics when people are in p2.

Please share some replays, otherwise it's not much use complaining.

[Servo]

@Player of 0ADwhy don’t you accept the challenge? I’m not defending Reza but if you accept the challenge it might show win or lose the need to rebalance or not. 
With CS and women just gather food and wood aslan do is send only fanatics and it doesn’t matter if they die because there will always be waves coming back over. 
Im sure this strategy may not work/win on 1v1 all the time but its going to be annoying on team games. This will also show there is no need of CS if a faction has this type of warrior not needing extra resources like metal. 
Since most of the players commenting here disagree with Reza would it hurt to rebalance fanatics requiring metal? 
Nevertheless in this game all entities should require metal from women to elite units to buildings. Literally how can they work without metal? 

[Deicide4u]

9 minutes ago, Servo said:

Nevertheless in this game all entities should require metal from women to elite units to buildings. Literally how can they work without metal? 

Please keep this thread going, it keeps on giving. Comedy gold.

[Fabius]

2 hours ago, king reza the great said:

 I sure non of the players who say fanatics arent broken able to counter fatanics rush in p2.

Because they rarely play. Not in the op th games and not experienced that.

They just ready to stop people who try to help balancing the game.

I think developers should read this post. Idk them. Maybe somebody tag them here?

it's in the name, they are "naked" ,emphasis on that word, Fanatics, they run around with no clothing or armour, just a shield, and kill hard and fast until they get wrecked by a hobnailed boot to the crotch and proper application of blunt/pointed/bladed weapon by a properly clothed and armoured infantryman. Any competent player with map knowledge can counter a fanatic raid with a mixed citizen force of ranged and melee infantry. Oh and your eco will probably be slower and handicapped cause food and wood are vital for eco expansion in first and second phases and you would have spent it all to make fanatics. Also fighting spearman with cavalry is silly unless they are super heavy like Selucids and even then its not a good idea. The main reason cav is a menace is due to its speed, the secondary one being that they have solid stats, you can pick your fights and disengage much more freely, it is the perfect tool to divide and conquer and your opponent. And yes I unapologetically murder my opponents with consular guard at every opportunity

[Player of 0AD]

1 hour ago, Servo said:

@Player of 0ADwhy don’t you accept the challenge? I’m not defending Reza but if you accept the challenge it might show win or lose the need to rebalance or not. 
With CS and women just gather food and wood aslan do is send only fanatics and it doesn’t matter if they die because there will always be waves coming back over. 
Im sure this strategy may not work/win on 1v1 all the time but its going to be annoying on team games. This will also show there is no need of CS if a faction has this type of warrior not needing extra resources like metal. 
Since most of the players commenting here disagree with Reza would it hurt to rebalance fanatics requiring metal? 
Nevertheless in this game all entities should require metal from women to elite units to buildings. Literally how can they work without metal? 

- a single match proves nothing 
- yes, fanatics are too weak to require metal. It's good that the game has a champion unit which doesnt cost metal.
- it's good that many units and buildings don't require metal, it increases playability of 0ad. Why should it be overly realistic...

[Dakara]

23 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

- a single match proves nothing 
- yes, fanatics are too weak to require metal. It's good that the game has a champion unit which doesnt cost metal.
- it's good that many units and buildings don't require metal, it increases playability of 0ad. Why should it be overly realistic...

I like this too, but maybe we should up the cost  ? or delete the armor piercing for be sensible to arrow, building and CS ?

1)If you build citizen soldiers to counter fanatic soldiers, you'll need more military pop than them to defend yourself. When you defend, you don't reap any rewards. You fall behind even if you don't lose units.

You can't do the same thing to your enemy because you don't have any fast-running units (and there's no way you're building cavalry to play the same strategy).

I don't see how you can have a good eco for beat the gaul using good the fanatic.

 

[chrstgtr]

19 hours ago, TheCJ said:

rue and thanks, but that also comes at a cost, since the fanatic player doesnt have to get the metal upgrades at all, while the normal champ player has to. Of course thats a one-time investment, but it will still matter since games dont go that long anyways.

(Also arent gauls the ones with the extra food upgrade)

Still slower with the extra upgrade. But it’s pretty close. 
 

And, all upgrades have cost. Any player going for fana will get all food/wood upgrades. They’ll also get at least some metal upgrades. Games go long enough that you need to get the upgrade and if the game is won or loss before the upgrade it’ll have nothing to do with how strong fana are 

[Servo]

@Fabiusare you playing against AI? I never heard any multiplayer producing 100 champ cavalry. Also on that particular I spectated no one had ever stopped Aslans menacing fanatics. Not Artric, not wolf not Mcaurell. And JC aka Docorgans who almost become cosmic looked good. 
With fully upgraded fanatics from the blacksmith who can stop it? 
Being a bit realistic adds playability. It adds more strategy.

[Player of 0AD]

30 minutes ago, Dakara said:

I like this too, but maybe we should up the cost  ? or delete the armor piercing for be sensible to arrow, building and CS ?

1)If you build citizen soldiers to counter fanatic soldiers, you'll need more military pop than them to defend yourself. When you defend, you don't reap any rewards. You fall behind even if you don't lose units.

You can't do the same thing to your enemy because you don't have any fast-running units (and there's no way you're building cavalry to play the same strategy).

I don't see how you can have a good eco for beat the gaul using good the fanatic.

 

- fanatics are already pretty expensive

- and they have already low armor so they are kinda vulnerable to arrows

- it should be easy to have more military pop with CS because they are much cheaper and they can collect.

- when you defend and kill fanatics, you get at least some loot ;-)     I guess javs can collect loot almost as fast as resources.
- ranged cavalry is faster than fanatics, so they can kite them
- if the enemy goes for fanatics he will be weaker while beginning this, so he can be attacked at that moment

[Deicide4u]

I don't know about others, but I really want to see those games where fanatics trash everything.

Like truly. 

[Fabius]

40 minutes ago, Servo said:

@Fabiusare you playing against AI? I never heard any multiplayer producing 100 champ cavalry. Also on that particular I spectated no one had ever stopped Aslans menacing fanatics. Not Artric, not wolf not Mcaurell. And JC aka Docorgans who almost become cosmic looked good. 
With fully upgraded fanatics from the blacksmith who can stop it? 
Being a bit realistic adds playability. It adds more strategy.

Then clearly you have not played much multiplayer, because it is has been done and is easy to pull off given sufficient time and resources, especially in a team game setting. Also, again, Fanatics are naked, slapping on some blacksmith upgrades does not change that fact, any regular infantry champion will kill them easy in melee combat, any ranged unit with upgrades will kill them easily, frankly even just having stone walls is enough. so I fail to see the argument when the game has multiple options to deal with them.

[king reza the great]

3 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

Please share some replays, otherwise it's not much use complaining.

Because the replays have no title its hard to find them. I have to wait for new games then i save them. After a while i share them here

[king reza the great]

2 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

- a single match proves nothing 
- yes, fanatics are too weak to require metal. It's good that the game has a champion unit which doesnt cost metal.
- it's good that many units and buildings don't require metal, it increases playability of 0ad. Why should it be overly realistic...

Its not about metal. Its about a way to stop fanatics spam in p2. Locking them in p2 and unlocking in p3 is other way to stop abusing fanatics in p2 too. Without requiring metal for them.

[Dakara]

 video, random stuff, no micro, just think what you want, this unit is a counter of cav, you can tell me i don"t have enough melee, it true, but anyway , fanatic run faster and they can pick the moment to fight (as cav)

1)

One example with not bad placement for blue : 

5 fanatic =  600 food 500 wood *** high speed, not able to pick ressource, big counter of cav
10 crossbow = 500 food 500 wood + 3 sperman = 150food 150 wood = 650 food 650 wood *** capacity to collect ressource / take more spot in house / feel good with 13 units to counter 5 units made for counter cav 

 

video 2)

5 fanatic =  600 food 500 wood

9 skirmish = 450 food 450 wood + 2 sperman = 100 food + 100 wood = 550 food 550 wood

 

video 3) 

20 archers + 3 spermen vs 8 fanatic = loose
1150 food 1150 wood vs 960 food 800 wood

8 champion infantery sword gauls win also (only 3 remains)

 

[Deicide4u]

10 minutes ago, Dakara said:

you can tell me i don"t have enough melee

You don't have enough melee. You also didn't snipe with those ranged units. Otherwise, it's an easy win for CS.

Edited 2 hours ago by Deicide4u

[guerringuerrin]

If the purpose of the units is to counter cav, then why don't just nerf a little their damage against infantry?

Edited 2 hours ago by guerringuerrin