Walling in

[Deicide4u]

Do you wall in often? What is your solution to walling off wood lines? How many towers do you usually erect to support the boom?

Any tips to wall in effectively in 0 A.D. are also welcome.

[Player of 0AD]

Almost never. "That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick."

Why would you wall off a wood line? It's full of soldiers. You can build palisades in neutral territory though if you want.

Towers: Usually zero, but they are much more common than palisades let alone walls ;-)

The most effective way to use walls might be to chose Iberians ;-)

Edited 21 hours ago by Player of 0AD

[ffm2]

Atm. for me it depends.
Ideally, long time ago when I could out-boom other players it's not necessary and slows you down (hence turtling). I prefer amoebae-style reach for extra res. or be near the front player. That again makes my base a bit weaker. House walls in combination with surrounding hills and just some gates are a good compromise. Especially if you expect another player to come with lots of cavs or siege maps (Corinthian isthmus, ambush)

I get infuriated when I see teammates building huge stone walls, indicating they have no intention in joining a fight anytime soon (except they communicate before, "I turtle you can help on the other side")

Another huge priority is that workers should not walk across your base a lot. So if you think on that side could fit some wall/building use only a few workers and preferably ones from nearby or maybe don't at all. That also goes for amoebae-stretch for res, it could be bad to stretch for some berries if you're exposed there and don't have any other business there.

[TheCJ]

3 hours ago, ffm2 said:

House walls in combination with surrounding hills and just some gates are a good compromise.

This is a very good tip. You have to build houses anyway; try to use them to "wall off" an area instead of just randomly placing them anywhere.

Especially with civs that have small houses, you can surround your entire field economy by lategame without any real additional investment.

As ffm mentioned, to not have unnecessary long walking times, you should include palisade gates at regular intervals when doing this.

[Deicide4u]

11 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

"That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick."

It works in this game because of the CSs, but... 

11 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Why would you wall off a wood line? It's full of soldiers.

...what if it's not? Sometimes you train a bit too many women, and you need some kind of protection. Building palisades is your best bet in the early game, but because trees don't have proper collision, enemy can just sneak in through the forest. 

The solution is to surround open side of the forest with walls, which is more expensive. Walls don't build fast enough, so you need more builders to make it before the enemy rush.

Making towers is a better option, but you need soldiers to man them or they're useless.

2 hours ago, TheCJ said:

You have to build houses anyway; try to use them to "wall off" an area instead of just randomly placing them anywhere.

Walling with houses will expose them to the enemy, who can just use capture->delete tactic to cost you both population and 150 wood per house. Both of them vital in the early game. BTW, why do houses need on average 40 seconds to be built? It's frustrating, especially considering there's batch training which makes you build houses almost continuously.

Edited 9 hours ago by Deicide4u
Added a rant about houses

[TheCJ]

3 minutes ago, Deicide4u said:

Walling with houses will expose them to the enemy, who can just use capture->delete tactic to cost you both population and 150 wood per house. Both of them vital in the early game.

If your enemy spends their time capturing a house and deleting it instead of killing your women, thats much better for you. You can easily gather the wood for a new house in the time he takes to capture with the same amount of soldiers.

(capture strength of infantry is 2.5 if im not mistaken, while gather rate for wood is 0.75; a house costs 150 wood and has 500 capture points. So it takes exactly equally long to gather the wood as it does to capture the house. Cav is even worse at capturing, also there is a base capture point regeneration that i havent taken into account. Also he has to walk across the map to get to you.)

Now, you do lose time on construction because you have to rebuild the house, but thats nowhere near as bad as the time you would lose if he killed your women gatherers.

And those walls give you the time to react, cause it takes much longer to capture them than to kill a women (or even a soldier).

[Deicide4u]

15 minutes ago, TheCJ said:

If your enemy spends their time capturing a house and deleting it instead of killing your women, thats much better for you. You can easily gather the wood for a new house in the time he takes to capture with the same amount of soldiers.

It takes 50 food and 8 seconds to train one woman, not counting batch training. It takes 150 wood and 50 seconds (25 with 2 builders) to make a new house (not counting the factions with small houses, that are also easier to capture). In the meantime, you are most likely housed and can't train anything until you build a house. You can spam women easily.

Your women will be safe inside the CC most of the time, anyway. The topic is mostly geared towards walls as a means of solid defense that will take forever to breach (similar to AoE).

Edited 9 hours ago by Deicide4u

[Dakara]

Don't use it except if you have a plan or a good map for it. 

Plus if your opponent is low no cata civ maybe you can do some.

 

About tower is nice in early but after it low efficiency and easy to capture , except if the tower are surround by building 

[TheCJ]

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

It takes 50 food and 8 seconds to train one woman, not counting batch training. It takes 150 wood and 50 seconds (25 with 2 builders) to make a new house (not counting the factions with small houses, that are also easier to capture).

It takes one infantry javelineer 2 throws (so 1.9s) to kill a women, while it takes one infantry javelineer 200s to take a house. He can kill 100 women in the time he takes 1 house.

[borg-]

I think palisades should be much cheaper and faster to build, but much weaker. I'm developing this in my mod.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

49 minutes ago, borg- said:

I think palisades should be much cheaper and faster to build, but much weaker. I'm developing this in my mod.

This was done in community mod version 27.1. It was about 2/3 the cost and 1/2 the build time.

I think it was pretty good.

[Deicide4u]

37 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

This was done in community mod version 27.1.

Wanted to ask, are those changes removed for CM 27.2?

I saw that the building armor is also back to the vanilla values. Agree that the changes were good.

Edited 2 hours ago by Deicide4u

[real_tabasco_sauce]

yes they are removed. The community mod is for playtesting changes, and it helps to do them in isolation. It also avoids splitting the community.