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A27: Very poor performance on weak hardware?


Meister
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Hello there
i have feedback in two parts:

- you should make a deb file! (i dont know how difficult it is to make, if its too hard let me know.) The game is released for mac and windows, but on a linux machine i cannot yet be installed. You cant even build it on debian bookworm because of the rustc problem - but bookworm is still the latest stable debian version. That means, if you have linux, you cannot play a27 - except you have arch or are a tech enthusiast...
Also this wiki page has been updated 6 months ago, so its unclear if the information displayed is still valid for a27. From Website -> Download -> Download for Linux you are sent to this page. @Itms

- I played a few games on debian trixie, using my old laptop with an Intel i7-4510U CPU @ 2.00GHz. I had up to 10 fps, but when it came to a 200 pop situation, it was more like 0.5 to 1 fps. I played with lowest graphic settings, which used to get me 20-40 fps on a26. I tried both OpenGL and Vulkan, no notable difference detected.
Any idea why it is so much slower now?

Thank you for reading this,
Meister

 

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28 minutes ago, Meister said:

- I played a few games on debian trixie, using my old laptop with an Intel i7-4510U CPU @ 2.00GHz. I had up to 10 fps, but when it came to a 200 pop situation, it was more like 0.5 to 1 fps. I played with lowest graphic settings, which used to get me 20-40 fps on a26. I tried both OpenGL and Vulkan, no notable difference detected.
Any idea why it is so much slower now?

I might suggest a bit techy way: open in-game profiler with F11 on a laggy scene and share result of the appeared window.

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2 hours ago, vladislavbelov said:

I might suggest a bit techy way: open in-game profiler with F11 on a laggy scene and share result of the appeared window.

Okay, here you are:

no mods activated. lowest graphic settings.

 

Thank you for having a look at it.
edit: this was 3v2 game after i gave up. also no fights going on at that moment. when there is a fight or when its a bigger map with 4v4, it drops below 5 fps

 

399362487_Bildschirmfotovom2025-01-3117-40-01.png

1702732143_Bildschirmfotovom2025-01-3117-40-15.png

Edited by Meister
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On 31/01/2025 at 2:47 PM, Stan` said:

GPU Skinning

I know it is too late now, but can we turn this off as default for future alphas/downloads? Every new alpha it seems like there are massive complaints about lag that result from improved art/processes/etc. 

I haven't played too much this alpha yet. But I am already hearing a massive number of complaints about lag. I tend to agree with those complaints. 

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Quote

- you should make a deb file

It is already in Debian Sid:

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/0ad

https://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd/pool/main/0/0ad/

https://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd/pool/main/0/0ad-data/

In Debian Bokworm will not be available:

Quote

0ad (0.27.0-2) unstable; urgency=medium

  * Tighten build-dep on cargo/rustc >= 1.66.0, required for building mozjs.
    Unfortunately this makes it difficult to backport to stable.

If you want to have 0ad 0.27.0 in Debian Bookworm, you have to compile it yourself using 'rustup' - tested - it works:

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/127464-debian-bookworm-129-rustup-successful-compilation-of-0270-rc2/

Regards

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2 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

I know it is too late now, but can we turn this off as default for future alphas/downloads? Every new alpha it seems like there are massive complaints about lag that result from improved art/processes/etc. 

I haven't played too much this alpha yet. But I am already hearing a massive number of complaints about lag. I tend to agree with those complaints. 

The thing GPU skinning is supposed to improve performance :) since you do more things on the GPU that's less load on the CPU. cc @vladislavbelov

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11 minutes ago, Stan` said:

The thing GPU skinning is supposed to improve performance :) since you do more things on the GPU that's less load on the CPU. cc @vladislavbelov

Ok. Then whatever the problem is. I'm not sure we know what that problem is right now. Can we set that off? But there is certainly way more lag in a27 than previous alphas. 

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8 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Ok. Then whatever the problem is. I'm not sure we know what that problem is right now. Can we set that off? But there is certainly way more lag in a27 than previous alphas. 

As in for Release 28 yeah if we don't find the culprit. It would nice to diagnose the source though. Are people using Vulkan or OpenGl, what kind of GPU they have etc.

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1 hour ago, Stan` said:

As in for Release 28 yeah if we don't find the culprit. It would nice to diagnose the source though. Are people using Vulkan or OpenGl, what kind of GPU they have etc.

We haven't figured out the source and who it is impacting. I thought you had it figured out. But I guess we still need to do our diligence to find source too

Base settings and base game is def causing a problem for every 4v4 game that I have seen, including games where we ask players to turn down graphic settings. 

Edited by chrstgtr
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Here is an attempt to see the frame rate evolution with GPU skinning. The frame rate is low but the system resource consumption is also very low; the process is not using much processing power. 

image.thumb.png.87e29f466be1e2703dfda4535b44c020.png

Only 9% CPU usage and 5% GPU usage, yet the game is at 8 fps

I think this is a matter of code optimisation. 

I'm glad to see some signs of multiprocessing, but the load could have been distributed more evenly.

 

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This is without GPU skinning. The frame rates are massively unstable and on average, worse. The resource consumptions are also low. 

image.thumb.png.32d118d5a18c2534ca98aaa7b8f6ed54.png

 

This is very different to lag in A26, where a single process is consuming 100% of a CPU core and the GPU is also near maximum. Now we have load distributed across several processes but each one uses little power. 

 

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Turns out, while I have a bit more recent hardware, I'm affected by this problem as well. The whole game stutters visibly and frame rates drop very low the more units exist.

I'm using a AMD GPU with Wayland on Linux. It doesn't matter whether I run the game with Wayland or XWayland. It doesn't matter whether I select OpenGL or Vulkan as engine. It doesn't matter whether I enable GPU Skinning or not and the problem continues to exist even on lowest graphics settings.

What seems to be common from the reports so far is that a lot of time is spent in "sim update", but I'm not sure if that's significant.

combat-demo-slow.png

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Its true, your fps is changing quite a bit.

Do the stutters happen in combat demo huge? (Scenarios -> Demo Maps -> combat demo (huge))

if they don't, I think they might be because of someone else in that game slowing things down for everyone. For example, when the women are stopped, the walking animation is still playing smoothly.

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