New Release: 0 A.D. Alpha 27: Agni

[Grautvornix]

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

... 

I learnt that, historically, chariots were also used as "taxi to the frontline", and that would allow increasing the number of passengers hence also the no. of javelins.

...

This is certainly only of value if the chariot was faster (including pathfinding) than a pedestrian, and in the end more powerful (renders greater damage) than horse archers/javelineers.

[Gurken Khan]

On 20/03/2025 at 9:43 PM, Obelix said:

Was just about to open an issue on Gitea for you when reading that the team bonus is for allies only and the specific tech includes neutral competitors as well.

So researching the specific tec does give the player a bonus - Silk Road is still utter shite. First of all, unlike all other team bonuses the player does not profit from it themself; second, the bonus from the spec tec is so minuscule that the game would need to last for hours to pay off.

The "20% bonus" is a bonus only of the bonus. So I paid 1,000 res for - in this case - 2 extra res per trip. Who would argue that that's a good deal?

(And I don't care about neutral competitors; don't know if anybody does.)

[Gurken Khan]

Didn't @Langbart have a place where he collected (and corrected) wrong text? Didn't find it.

[Stan`]

This one? https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7510

[Gurken Khan]

28 minutes ago, Stan` said:

This one? https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7510

Maybe? Just looking for a convenient place where it will be seen/addressed.

[Fabius]

Hi there, been greatly enjoying A27 so far. The new additions to Rome have been great, especially second phase castrums. However I wanted to give some feedback on Marian reforms in particular.

I have found it a bit underwhelming and constraining in what it does. Onagers are fun and feel like the main draw for doing the Reforms. however the rest of what you get feels less than what you could do before doing Reforms. Eg you already get second rank infantry(Spear and Sword) out your castrum, your skirmishers now require metal which I have always found very off-putting as metal in my books is better spent on champions/sword units and blacksmithing, and you lose access to field promotion of centurions which now take rather a long time to get from fortresses. Not to mention that your only spear unit is now much worse at his job of stabbing horses because he is capped at first rank.

The point is that Marians Reforms feels like a constraint on tactical capabilities and unless you are on a metal heavy rich environment fighting someone only using infantry you are much better off never getting it.

Also why are the first cohort legionaries not included in the Centurion's Century Manoeuvres ability as they are clearly meant to be veteran Marian legionaries?

All that being said, I like the concept of the tech, and I would like to see it be a more tantalising option than what it currently is.

So for starters perhaps the First Cohort legionaries could be included in Century Manoeuvres.

Then more ambitiously one could explore having Marian legionaries use the classic pilum and do the switching business between melee and range. maybe give them lower attack but maintain the normal armour of the melee half, essentially an armoured skirmisher. Even more ambitiously one can do this for the first cohort legionaries as well. 

On a basic level switching the spearman for the skirmisher and having legionary spearman and conscript skirmishers instead. Rome has a most annoying weakness to heavy cavalry, which I think is probably just true for a lot of civs, except Sparta of course.

An alternative take could be having Marian legionaries switch between sword and spear.

[Deicide4u]

1 hour ago, Fabius said:

I have found it a bit underwhelming and constraining in what it does. Onagers are fun and feel like the main draw for doing the Reforms. however the rest of what you get feels less than what you could do before doing Reforms. Eg you already get second rank infantry(Spear and Sword) out your castrum, your skirmishers now require metal which I have always found very off-putting as metal in my books is better spent on champions/sword units and blacksmithing, and you lose access to field promotion of centurions which now take rather a long time to get from fortresses. Not to mention that your only spear unit is now much worse at his job of stabbing horses because he is capped at first rank.

The point is that Marians Reforms feels like a constraint on tactical capabilities and unless you are on a metal heavy rich environment fighting someone only using infantry you are much better off never getting it.

There are two (well, three for me) reasons to research Marian Reforms:

1) You are in the lead, and you want to quickly capitalize on that lead by turning all your CS to near-champion level troops. A kind of a "win more" move. The point of Marian Reforms is not to train the new units, but rather convert the existing ones.
2) You are behind, and your only way to somehow survive and counterattack is to get the tech and overwhelm your enemy. A kind of a "last stand gambit" move.

Third reason is purely based on fashion. I like the new icons and the unit models, so I research Marian Reforms anyway. They're super cool to look at. Also, you get to train real Legionaries, duh.

But, some of your points are valid. Roman basic infantry is strong, even the spearman. Spear cavalry is also great. However, they're not cool

Edited Thursday at 21:15 by Deicide4u
Converting existing units part.

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

1) You are in the lead, and you want to quickly capitalize on that lead by turning all your CS to near-champion level troops. A kind of a "win more" move. The point of Marian Reforms is not to train the new units, but rather convert the existing ones.
2) You are behind, and your only way to somehow survive and counterattack is to get the tech and overwhelm your enemy. A kind of a "last stand gambit" move.

So basically Flemish Revolution lol

[real_tabasco_sauce]

4 hours ago, Fabius said:

Also why are the first cohort legionaries not included in the Centurion's Century Manoeuvres ability as they are clearly meant to be veteran Marian legionaries?

All that being said, I like the concept of the tech, and I would like to see it be a more tantalising option than what it currently is.

So for starters perhaps the First Cohort legionaries could be included in Century Manoeuvres.

This is a error. They are supposed to be affected by this bonus.

[Fabius]

13 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

This is a error. They are supposed to be affected by this bonus.

When would this be fixed?

Checked it and the issue appears to be that when the Extrordinari is replaced by the First Cohort Legionary it does not gain the legionary keyword hence why it is not being affected.

Edited Friday at 13:22 by Fabius

[Emacz]

On 30/03/2025 at 10:23 AM, Grautvornix said:

This is certainly only of value if the chariot was faster (including pathfinding) than a pedestrian, and in the end more powerful (renders greater damage) than horse archers/javelineers.

the brits in particular were know for this.  We ahve played around wiht the idea in Historical.  The "transport" chariot does less dmg, (the driver can defend himself a little) but has more armor.  It can garrison 1 unit pick them up drop them off in battle at a time. Kinda cool.  But maybe even transport 2 units?

[Fabius]

The thought occurred to me that after the implementation of Marian Reforms the three Roman heroes are now out of their time frame, so what about replacing them with three new heroes like Julius Caesar and Pompey and one other from that era? 

If there is a proper place to put ideas please point the way as I am currently unsure if it should be community mod or some other place

Edited 12 hours ago by Fabius

[Grautvornix]

On 11/04/2025 at 3:27 PM, Emacz said:

the brits in particular were know for this.  We ahve played around wiht the idea in Historical.  The "transport" chariot does less dmg, (the driver can defend himself a little) but has more armor.  It can garrison 1 unit pick them up drop them off in battle at a time. Kinda cool.  But maybe even transport 2 units?

Two units garrisoned and providing 2.5 time the damage of a single unit would be great, I think. But this is true only if that was used for combat.

If chariots were only used for swift transport, we should allow more units (otherwise it'd be rather useless in the game (these are typical sacrifices of historical reality towards better gameplay).

Scenario: You brought 10 chariots to the front, each having 5 passengers onboard. Let them disembark and fight while the chariots go back to provide more relief forces. Effective if the chariots were significantly faster than walking troops.

Not sure if this is too much micro?