Champion cavalry improvements

[real_tabasco_sauce]

i'm going to go ahead and do 3x counter. Anything else to do in the near term?

[Arup]

@real_tabasco_sauce slow down all cavalry. it doesn't make sense to think armored cav is so much faster than human fighter. I am pretty sure the speed difference is not realistic. Look at historical patch for suggestions and specifica

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

i'm going to go ahead and do 3x counter. Anything else to do in the near term?

Speed. I think all cav could use a nerf. Setting their speed an about equal to fanatics seems about right with melee cav being slightly faster and range cav being the same as fana (also, would make fana a better counter, which I think it needs to be)

also, what exactly is the 3x counter? (Just want to make sure everyone is on same page)

kind of related, but melee inf should get a speed boost too. But that’s more of a range vs melee balancing issue. 

Edited 11 hours ago by chrstgtr

[Seleucids]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

i'm going to go ahead and do 3x counter. Anything else to do in the near term?

3x for whom against whom?

Ideally inf spear and inf pike get giant counter against champion cav, like 3x 4x 5x

But spear cav shouldn't counter other cavs at this rate, otherwise you are basically banning all cav strategies as soon as someone makes a few spear cav. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3x spearmen/pikemen against cav.

@chrstgtr @Arup I agree with you both on speed. Im doing the cav counter (2.5x to 3x) since it was widely requested earlier, but I’d like to experiment with some speed balance in the future.

[chrstgtr]

3 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

3x spearmen/pikemen against cav.

@chrstgtr @Arup I agree with you both on speed. Im doing the cav counter (2.5x to 3x) since it was widely requested earlier, but I’d like to experiment with some speed balance in the future.

Sounds good. 

I'm a little worried the 3x counter will be too much against CS cav. But we will see and adjust, if necessary. 

Edited 6 hours ago by chrstgtr

[Arup]

2 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

I'm a little worried the 3x counter will be too much against CS cav. But we will see and adjust, if necessary. 

yes, I think 3x might be overkill too, but we gotta test first haha

[Atrik]

37 minutes ago, Arup said:

yes, I think 3x might be overkill too, but we gotta test first haha

It's x3 from existing x2.5.
x3 inf polearms vs cav and x2 spear cav vs cavs were the a26 values and cavs, especially champ cavs, where still op, just not as much as now.

[Atrik]

Basically I think what would be nice is to have cavs used for their mobility, and not a unit that will always be the best suited in all situations as main core troop. To keep melee cav skirmishing still possible they need to have mobility, but being less effective then infantry to fight as front-lines. Restoring x2 spear cav vs cav would also make them a good choice when needing to counter ranged cavs.
Strong counters is a easy way to make units more balanced overall because one player can... counter... any unit "abused" by it's opponent.