Infinite fish

[alre]

currently, given the relative cost of making a dock and a fishing fleet, or, on the other hand, a mamned war fleet, I don't see much strategic depth in fishing: you do it, it's good while it works, at some time it will be over anyway.

I think it would be better if fishing was more like a more exposed and more convenient alternative to farming, also in the long run: fish patches could give infinite food. of course one could make some math and balance the gathering speed and/or the limit on the number of boats that can fish from the same patch at the same time.

what's your thoughts? I believe we can watch at AoE for direct comparison btw.

[Atrik]

Maybe the food regeneration could buffed to be as fast as 1 fishing boat gathering speed, but you can still make the trade-off to fish intensively with more boats.

[Περσεφόνη]

If you want to make endless fish, then do it only like in Age of Empires III. The fact is that whales there were not a separate animal, but a static “deposit” of gold. But squid and ordinary fish were not an endless source of food. Another nuance is that not only fishing boats in the Age of Empires III could fish, but also some military ones. You can, of course, make two types of fish “deposits”, one of which could end, and the other - a large one - slow production and an endless one, for which it makes sense to fight.

There is another more complex option - to leave the sources of fish limited, but they will periodically appear in a random place in the water area and their number, in order to avoid frame drops, must be tied to a certain number, different for each map and for different map scales. The second option is to let the fish, after exhaustion, go on cooldown for a few minutes and resume only after some time.

The Age of Empires II solved this problem in the form of a separate building, accessible to a fishing boat - fishing nets, which were like a farm, only for water.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Περσεφόνη

[alre]

2 hours ago, Atrik said:

Maybe the food regeneration could buffed to be as fast as 1 fishing boat gathering speed, but you can still make the trade-off to fish intensively with more boats.

also possible, but how would you deal with technologies that increase the gathering speed of fishing boats? 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I think it could be possible to avoid the 'death' of the resource and let it reach 0. That way the fishing rate would be limited to the regen rate. One could even make a fish_depleted model where there are fewer fish in the water and only 1 bird circling above.

[hyperion]

Finite resources are somewhat important for rts, so me think it's up to mapmakers to add more fish (more or bigger patches) if that improves a certain map.

One problem is the role of fishing isn't that obvious in 0ad as let's say aoe2, where its used to grow eco faster early on and still not lose all purpose later with fish traps by converting wood to food over time in balance with fields.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I said 'bad idea' because letting the fish be infinite and significantly faster than farming would basically guarantee a player's victory if they have a 'safe' fishing source and their opponent doesn't. There should be a need to transition to farms at some point, or reach for more distant and dangerous fish.

Edited October 29, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[gui456wSERTDYF]

I find the current implementation of fish good. It is true that at some point they disappear, but as long as they last it is way faster than farms. A relatively fast regeneration rate would be interesting though, you could live on fish.

[Grautvornix]

Considering fishing like a form of hunting I would opt for finite resources fo fish. Land animals are also a finite resource unless "produced" in a corral. There is no way in the game to "nurture" fish population, say by adding food (and aqua farming is not very historical I believe).

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

In DE, the fish regeneration is 43% faster than in EA. Works well. 

 

[alre]

7 hours ago, hyperion said:

Finite resources are somewhat important for rts, so me think it's up to mapmakers to add more fish (more or bigger patches) if that improves a certain map.

that finite resources are a good thing is only true in a general sense, not regarding every single one of them. fields yield infinite food, breeding is also unlimited, there is no reason to force every alternative to be limited instead.

however, one could indeed propose a single map with this feature (described in the map description), before having it as a standard for all maps (I don't think it's realistic to have most random generated maps with intelligently dosed fish depending on size and players number).

7 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I said 'bad idea' because letting the fish be infinite and significantly faster than farming would basically guarantee a player's victory if they have a 'safe' fishing source and their opponent doesn't. There should be a need to transition to farms at some point, or reach for more distant and dangerous fish.

farms are always easier to defend than fish, because you can place wherever you want, and they are trivial to fortify. you can't build fortifications on sea.

of course if you have in mind a hypothetical map where all the fish is safely on one player side, and all other resources too, and the other side offers no advantage, well of course there is a player who will be almost guaranteed to win.

[chrstgtr]

8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I said 'bad idea' because letting the fish be infinite and significantly faster than farming would basically guarantee a player's victory if they have a 'safe' fishing source and their opponent doesn't. There should be a need to transition to farms at some point, or reach for more distant and dangerous fish.

This. Saying fishing has no purpose is completely wrong. Fishing requires an upfront, risky investment that pays off handsomely when done well.

Heavy fishing maps are also vulnerable to ship attacks late, which can’t be defended without also making ships. If you try to out boom a fishing player with a lot of berries/farms, you will lose 100% of the time against a good player.

Making fishing infinite won’t make fishing more viable—it will make farms/berries useless. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by chrstgtr

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 29/10/2023 at 5:42 AM, Atrik said:

Maybe the food regeneration could buffed to be as fast as 1 fishing boat gathering speed, but you can still make the trade-off to fish intensively with more boats.

This.