proGUI

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I'm all for GUI mods that present game info in better ways or more efficient access to existing game features. But to add new features and abilities and then use that against players who don't have that same mod is cheating.

[Atrik]

33 minutes ago, seeh said:

@Atrikyou know eventually is some boonGUI / proGUI hotkeys are not configurable? example i want disable this shift+Tab think eventually

Yes, you are probably searching for the autociv.session.minimap.expand.toggle hotkey.

[chrstgtr]

9 hours ago, seeh said:

When the other player agree? I agree, I always agree to this statement. it sounds very logically straightforward. But total transparency is much more important i mean:

There have been so many posts in this thread (and that thread) saying that it is cheating. Just because it is public knowledge doesn't mean that it isn't cheating. There is no agreement on any of these items. If there was agreement it would be part of the vanilla game (and thereby not a "cheat"). The only reason why these cheats exist is because someone made the mod and no one can do anything to stop you from using it. Being transparent about cheating doesn't make you any less of a cheat.

A cheat is anything that gives an advantage this is not universally agreed to. This mod gives an advantage to the user and is not publicly agreed to.

This is a game with no referees to enforce the rules. The game relies on cooperation around the basic rules of the game. If we were to play a soccer match and I picked up the ball with my hands and ran it into the goal it would be cheating. It wouldn't matter that everyone could see me do it (public/transparent). And, it wouldn't matter if there was or wasn't referees to enforce the rules against against.

No matter how public. No matter how transparent. A cheat is a cheat. And, players continued use of a mod in games where others call it a cheat loses any good will and benefit of the doubt those players ever had.

Edited September 7, 2023 by chrstgtr

[alre]

16 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

There have been so many posts in this thread (and that thread) saying that it is cheating. Just because it is public knowledge doesn't mean that it isn't cheating. There is no agreement on any of these items. If there was agreement it would be part of the vanilla game (and thereby not a "cheat"). The only reason why these cheats exist is because someone made the mod and no one can do anything to stop you from using it. Being transparent about cheating doesn't make you any less of a cheat.

A cheat is anything that gives an advantage this is not universally agreed to. This mod gives an advantage to the user and is not publicly agreed to.

This is a game with no referees to enforce the rules. The game relies on cooperation around the basic rules of the game. If we were to play a soccer match and I picked up the ball with my hands and ran it into the goal it would be cheating. It wouldn't matter that everyone could see me do it (public/transparent). And, it wouldn't matter if there was or wasn't referees to enforce the rules against against.

No matter how public. No matter how transparent. A cheat is a cheat. And, players continued use of a mod in games where others call it a cheat loses any good will and benefit of the doubt those players ever had.

I play for fun, I like competing once in a while and I can play fair: I played without the mod for the tournament event if it wasn't required (contrary to what I had thought). What I'm saying is: think what you want to think, but I've been using progui since soon after it was out, and I'm not a cheater.

[chrstgtr]

4 hours ago, seeh said:

Yes, but then it feels not like cheating for me.

You’re missing the entire point. Your opinion doesn’t matter if the people you’re playing with think that’s it’s cheating. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

yeah this is a pretty objective situation.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The comparison to AQ is not apt at all, when my critique is that while AQ is a standard feature of the game, your mod is not, and confers macro and micro benefits to some players out of the scope of the standard game unavailable to those without your mod.

[chrstgtr]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The comparison to AQ is not apt at all, when my critique is that while AQ is a standard feature of the game, your mod is not, and confers macro and micro benefits to some players out of the scope of the standard game unavailable to those without your mod.

One of the lessons is: if you want to actually develop a game with new features do it as part of the main development team.
 

Everyone would like to see new/more team members. the reception for rogue development is chillier. 

[rejoicing]

Without going into the discussion whether is cheating or not.

Is there a chance to create a progui fork which has all active features disabled (and which cannot be enabled), such as autostart, unit creation, auto tec and trade?

Because I think many agree that the gui is quite nice - and that is not the issue (in the cheating discussion).

 

So maybe that could be a nice compromise.

What is your take on that?

[Atrik]

41 minutes ago, rejoicing said:

a progui fork which has all active features disabled (and which cannot be enabled)

You can use BoonGUI, or use the option in proGUI under "GUI customization" to totally disable and hide the panel with the trainer and autotribute.

[rejoicing]

I understand - there are the following problems.

If you use progui, then some people say you're cheating unrelated to the fact whether you actually us the 'active' features of progui or not and one would have to check the whole the game to be sure.

Boongui if I am not mistaken is not compatible with autociv in the latest version. Also there are differences between progui and boongui, like progui shows you idle buildings which is kind of handy, no?

[Atrik]

Anybody can fork a mod and remove some features, I don't feel like making it myself because it doesn't add anything useful since you can already customize the features you want to show on screen in proGUI. If you don't like the reaction of peoples to the mod's name, because it's associated with a bunch of assumptions, you can rename it easily to something else in proGUI/mod.json.

[alre]

2 minutes ago, Atrik said:

If you don't like the reaction of peoples to the mod's name, because it's associated with a bunch of assumptions, you can rename it easily to something else in proGUI/mod.json.

true. a bit cynical actually, but true.

[sarcoma]

@Atrik

Fresh 0ad install, progui only mod

ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/pregame/mainmenu~boongui.js line 98
config is not defined
  @gui/pregame/mainmenu~boongui.js:98:5
  messageBox/<@gui/common/functions_msgbox.js:14:23
  setButtonCaptionsAndVisibitily/</button.onPress@gui/common/utilities.js:29:11

 

[Atrik]

I think this was a bug that I patched since.
Solutions:
1. Get/Enable autociv (and maybe load it first) it might fix it.
2. Patch proGUI.

I don't remember how much this bug was affecting but I think it was very low. If you still have the error with current patch 0.5.15 please tell me.

[sarcoma]

ty @Atrik

is there a reason not to ignore incompatibility checks?

i would like to use the mod regardless of whether or not others have it

[Atrik]

39 minutes ago, sarcoma said:

is there a reason not to ignore incompatibility checks?

Nothing in the mod is incompatible and therefore it is safe to ignore compatibility check.