real_tabasco_sauce

im fine with this. It is just sad to see super weak units, especially the unique ones. Thats really why I made this mod, to make them interesting and relevant to gameplay. @chrstgtr you voted yet or no? I would like 10 or so.

Well they are basically one of the worst units in the game at the moment. You need like 40+ axe cav to chop down the enemy CC as is. Usually this is trolling. They do much less hack damage than swords and they are much weaker. The mobile siege without any other skills (other than antiram) makes a25 axecav rather gimmicky. In contrast, the axecav I modded make more sense, they are an elite raiding unit, minimally armored but very fast. this doesn't make sense, since they are so weak. Currently, just use spearcav as they have more armor, don't cost metal. make note of the 1.5 second attack repeat time (compared to 0.75 for swords). They do ~5 hack/second less than champ swordsman and ~8 less then champ swordcav. Crucially: hyrcanian cav hack damage per second (dps) is the same as rank three citizen soldier swordcav, but they also get some crush damage. This is the main difference that makes them not nearly as strong as swordcavs: axe cav armor: 3 hack 2 pierce; swordcav armor: 3 hack 4 pierce. At rank two, swordcav are 4 and 5 (explaining in part why merc cav are so OP) what this amounts to is that the axe cav in my mod are not able to tank damage like swordcav: if you want to use them well, you will use their speed to your advantage and carefully choose fights you can survive. As for the crush values, I have them set exactly as they were for the axe cav template. Hyrcanian cav (rank 3 axecav) get a damage increase for crush just like all rank 3 melee units. This bonus brings crush up to 5.0, but I am a little flexible on the crush values. If they are OP in release candidates, then it will be easy to lower the value a little. @Sevda I encourage you to try downloading the mod. You seem to have made up your mind without testing. In fact, I only have had 4 downloads of the mod.

if I could get like 4 to 6 more votes here that would be great!

huge agree right there

@borg- I am worried about allowing too much crush damage in p1. In the early game, you could destroy barracks and houses, with extra capture and crush that would be even stronger. But then what is the use of the unit in late game? I would say my mod differentiates axe cav much more to be honest. You should download it just to try.

I guess we can infer that 3 by 3 and 4 by 4 etc. have steeper and steeper exponential growths, and with more delay than 2 by 2. Nice math @Sevda this is a good way of looking at it.

go crazy: This is option 2 in the poll. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4683

You mean this patch? https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4674 I made the crush change you suggested by the way.

+ + could be interesting. I guess this could be combined with your archer suggestion as a civ bonus (+ archer accuracy/rank speed , spears less attack + armor). What to call it I have no idea. I think both of these would be a little crazy to be fair. I think all CS cav in p1 is good (maybe not hyrcanian cav because of crush), but I think you should have to get a stable for the full menu so to speak. This sounds awesome, although I am unsure if it should go in p2 or 3. It is certainly more interesting than the current conscription tech for pers. At least my hyrcanian cav idea might be a little differentiation

ok everyone, new version of the mod (i expect this to be the last version): In this version, the base crush dps (for all axe cav) was returned to the pre-existing rate. axecav_overhaul_mod_v0.1.3.zip

+ it can't be more useless than it already is tho.

Yeah I guess you are right. It's just these units are basically useless at the moment aside from anti ram. So at least now they will be of interest strategically. Surely it's better than the status quo. If you try my mod just to give them a spin, maybe they will be of more interest.

people seem very eager to discuss hypothetical balance changes and debate what to do, but not so eager to discuss the balance of actual changes. i have had 2 balancing advisor feedback on this (quite significant) change for hyrcanian cavalry: I made a mod and a patch, but still very little feedback from balancing people.

@LetswaveaBook, I was talking about the mod/patch being balanced. What I envisioned in the above was sort of a glass cannon raiding unit. It is as unique as skiritai are for sparta.

yes, you are right. But at least they may now make an appearance on the battlefield. Thoughts on balance?

ok made a patch just like the mod above. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4674

you can micro at the moment, just not very much. Perhaps battles seem longer to me due to lag XD. I bet if the game performed perfectly, they would appear much faster too. Instead of lowering damage values, raise repeat times. If my understanding is correct, this would reduce the number of range queries needed per unit time. I played a23 btw. The main thing that stood out to me were the slinger death balls.

Estoy de acuerdo.

OK, after testing, this last version is pretty ideal. They are weak units with lots of hack and a little crush, they move quite fast but it doesn't look unnatural. They lose (close) to spearcav with a25 values, lose to spearmen. They beat javelin cav but not by much, especially considering the cost. They can break palisades with ease and deal lots of damage to unattended eco, but they fall fairly quickly to building arrows. This unit will not make pers OP like carth swordcav made carthage OP, but rather provide a unique and fun tool to punish undefended eco. @chrstgtr @ValihrAnt @BreakfastBurrito_007 @Dizaka @Philip the Swaggerless @Edwarf if people like it, I could make a patch really quick, although it is a bit of a hack job.

Ok it has been raised to my attention that these are busted XD. Here are changes for version 0.1.2: Axe cav parent -1 pierce, reverting the +1 pierce armor increase, hyrcanian cav now have 3 hack 2 pierce. Health bonus for rank 3 is removed, reverting HP back to rank 1 level (160).

i'm not talking about fighting, I am talking about how fast you could boom with these units. One of the biggest strengths of ptol is how early you can get p3 and launch a full scale attack (with upgrades, seige). 35f 35w and 6 seconds would take it to a new level (this costs 20 more res than a woman and trains 2 seconds faster). Then, you have to factor in the 220 pop space. It's just inadvisable to do this. Better to increase their dps to match slingers. The only way I could see this being a little balanced is as a p3 unique tech To be honest I like the fast paced fighting, but to each their own.

I guys I made a quick mod to make these cavalry more interesting. Currently, they are basically bad, with much less dps and armor than swordcav. firstly: All axecav get +1 pierce, swordcav hack dps, a little less crush dps, and slower repeat time for differentiation (could be better for quickly dealing damage) This mod makes the hyrcanian cav a unique raiding unit, with a cost profile similar to skiritai commandos, only instead of the armor increase of training at rank 3, they receive a speed increase. They also drop more loot, have more hp. I kept acceleration the same as all melee cav. hyrcanian stats in the mod and patch: 160hp, 3 hack armor, 2 pierce armor, 100 food, 40 wood, 35 metal, 18.7 hack, 5 crush per 1.5 seconds, 20 m/s walk speed. also 22 second train time. To apply this mod, add it to your mods folder in application support (Application\ Support/0ad/mods/ ). I would love it if balancing people gave me feedback, preferably with some in game testing. axecav_overhaul_mod_v0.1.3.zip

Oh, I thought you meant capture a stable in order to train normal cavalry units. In a23 if you captured an enemy fort or siege workshop you could train a mauryan ram.

I guess this would be like the maur ram before A24.