real_tabasco_sauce

Very nice, I do like the icons, but i think smaller is better, and perhaps a particular opacity will be ideal. cheaper, so the net difference is only how many you can put in one place.

also for the download page: 10.12 is Sierra Mavericks is older, like 10.9

yes, I think it could scare some players away. A change of language would be good.

well, https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4788 has a need for many simple icons: feedback on this idea has been mixed, so no point in making any icons yet. But I think the technique could be perfect for making these very generic icons.

haha they want to use mercs again. Me too, I hope the nerfs they got are enough (probably not tho)

yes iphricates is one of the goats, but after he's dead its gg. Athens swordcav is the worst too. so sad, they will be more exciting in a26 imo.

really? they have 2 OP heroes. do ele spam with best ele hero, then switch into mass javelin cav with the cav armor hero. I'd take them over athenians tbh.

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4788 mod (not identical to patch atm) : unit_upgrades.zip

Talk about an impossible task XD. I think what we can conclude is that people are happy to have more content in general. To me, a more diverse tech tree seemed like a certain way to offer content in the form of gameplay options and playstyles.

Haha, yes I did this but some ppl really didn't like it . Have you downloaded the mod to take a look at the layout? I thought it looks ok even now, but I think many of the complications can be addressed with: 1. better tooltips, for example, explaining that higher projectile velocity increases the odds of a hit on a moving target. 2. simple icons with I or II in the top right corner for level 1 and 2. 3. a rearranged UI, with the upgrades directly beneath their respective units. What made me start this project was the current cavalry HP and speed upgrades. In general, I disklike them. There is a period in the early game where investing in these can help beat the opponent's cav, and this is fun, but in the late game, these wind up serving as a general buff for all cavalry since they are so cheap. I thought a group of unit specific upgrades would increase the army composition possibilities and strategies available to players, while also serving as a handy balancing tool. For example, if one unit is too strong, simply tie a trade-off to that unit that increases its risk of being countered. (ex archer cav op -> level 1 upgrade decreases speed) It would certainly be a lot of new content, and anything new takes time to get used to. I think it shouldn't be too hard because there are only 4 to 8 per civ, and 2 possible for each unit. Once you have played a civ once or twice, those upgrades should be memorable. What will be interesting is if you can remember what upgrades your enemy's civ has access to. On that note, I have tried to give civs upgrades that fit their playstyle. For example pers has 4 cavalry ones and 2 infantry techs. see below image: if you don't want to download the mod, you can also look at the patch to see which civs have what upgrades. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4788

Yes, we for sure need to be familiar with the meta(s) from a26 before this is committed. I really just put this out so we could consider the "system" that has been built here. Does the idea in general sound good to you? I think taking a little value out of the blacksmith arms race would be nice.

@LetswaveaBook @BreakfastBurrito_007 is just talking about how percentage upgrade give more dps to units that start out with more DPS. 1.20 * 5 is less than 1.20 * 10 It is a difference, and it is something to consider when we balance units, but I don't think the forge techs should be changed and I don't think we should use +/- damage upgrades instead. We should definitely not use a combination of percentage and addition upgrades.

@borg- provided a lot of differentiation for Persia, should be interesting to play.

in the patch, you can easily see which civ's get which upgrades, so you don't have to get the mod to see. Once I get some more suggestioons for cavalry skirmisher 2, archer2, and crossbow2, I will update the patch and the mod.

If the fire damage is problematic balance-wise, I could scrap that one in favor some other upgrade. What do you all have in mind? I would like to make a couple of others more "trade-off" upgrades.

yes, there are upgrades that have tradeoffs, which I like.

so you mean one could start a new attack after moving to attack sooner? Ok i just tried this with crossbows and indeed walking between attack order cancels the repeat timer. However, even in an ideal setting: 1 unit vs 1 unit in standground, the time to kill is almost the same. given the above, I don't imagine this being problematic for melee units, but its worth taking note of. If it seems like a problem, I can also modify the prepare time.

Some example upgrades. The layout always seems to group upgrades for one unit together, so I don't think they need some special location in the menu.

this discussion is a gem

^forgive me, I had to XD. In all seriousness, these upgrades make much less impact than the general damage/armor hikes. Instead, they are ways to differentiate units into roles as desired. It was not the wrong direction btw, the blacksmith was absolutely full of upgrades, and it they were very, very expensive. It is much better the way it is, more streamlined, straightforward. I would say these upgrades are much more interesting and logical than pre a23 forge technologies. They are also pretty cheap, so doing a composition switch is absolutely possible. (in fact, this makes them more impactful). Lastly, I would like anyone commenting to please actually download the mod, and back up what you are saying with what you have found in the mod. *btw I made a seperate topic for this: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/93787-unit-specific-upgrades/

Hi Everyone, After discussion from @BreakfastBurrito_007 and others in the suggestions for a27 topic, I made a mod to test out some of these potential additions to the game. Plenty seemed interested. UPDATED MOD for a26 feel free to try it: UnitSpecUpgrades.zip Some things to take note of when checking out the mod: They come from the production buildings, not forge. Not all civs receive every possible upgrade. Civs get 4 to 8 of these. They do not effect mercenaries or heroes. They do effect champions. I only used the clenched_fist.png icon, so I will need icons in the future. Community mod link: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...unit_upgrades?from_project_id=36954588&straight=false

Thanks for the tip! Also @LetswaveaBook I understand your arguments but maybe let me explain a couple of other things before you make your mind up. 1. Not every unit from every civ receives these. Each civ gets anywhere from 4 to 8 of these upgrades. 2. The forge upgrades have a much more powerful effect on overall gameplay, and the point of this patch is to somewhat dismantle the dominance of the forge arms race. Instead, I would like to see players consider their options and the way these upgrades might give them the upper hand against their enemy. Better adjusting the costs could make this an important decision to make. 3. I have given these unit specific upgrades to factions in such a way as to make the currently least used units more viable. 4. The upgrades diversify units: Take for example the first spear cavalry upgrade. This increase in acceleration changes the behavior of spearcav to make chasing ranged cavalry much more effective. The second upgrade does something more impactful, but notice I have not given it to gauls, persia, or sele which have crazy spear cav champs. 5. lastly, this is actually an excellent gameplay feature. When players pick upgrades, for example, to fully maximize their ranged attack and pierce armor (meat shield meta) they have an enormous weakness that can be exploited not only by making units that counter the enemy's but also by researching upgrades (in this case swords and hack damage perhaps). This is found in other RTS games, including 0AD. It is part of the strategy. I wouldn't say its that complicated. It's just more content really.

I still have not figured out how to give archers some fire damage as a technology, but here is a tentative set of unit specific upgrades. I don't have any icons, so I just used the clenched fist from will to fight. You will notice I removed the generic cavalry speed and HP technologies from the stable to make room for this more sophisticated upgrade system. As far as I have tested, everything works. This is version 1, but I would like to figure out any other issues before I make a separate topic. My thoughts are that this is a way to bring increased differentiation to civs and units, while also serving as a balancing tool for difficult balancing cases. The upgrades do not affect mercenaries or heroes. I will make a patch too, and we will probably need to adjust some costs/values but at the moment it looks pretty exciting.

yeah, I agree with you. I was actually not aware of the repeat time change until now.