real_tabasco_sauce

This could be a team bonus. Maybe just slingers and javelins? I like this as a civ specific bonus. One could call it "hill forts." a new briton unique tech would good too. Researched from the cc during phase 2 perhaps? Maybe an increase in damage for certain unit types, maybe increased acceleration and/or move speed at the cost of armor?

Hi @Darkcity thanks for the feedback! I was thinking 50% would be good since it would have a significant effect on gameplay, but 20% or 25% is a safer option. My thoughts are this: if we test the bonus at 50%, we can always bring it down to 30% or 25% as needed. But if we test the bonus at 25% it might not be very interesting for gameplay and then I bet people won't try it out. Also: for some reason, with 50% reduction in train time, infantry train in 7->5 seconds, and cavalry from 11->7 seconds. It's not 50% interestingly so its not as strong as expected XD. I'm wondering if there is some other factor at work. It is a significant difference, however.

ok 3 team bonuses down: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/commit/9c73d5e1cd3e8c6b6c5a28431982c27e04066934 for carthage perhaps: -50% mercentary train time. in the repository now.

Well, I think athens is pretty good now: "democracy" CC techs (including phase up) -50% research time -30% cost. Carthage could maybe be a more impactful trade bonus, potentially: cheaper, faster training traders, markets too maybe. I think kush is acceptable (maybe just an improvement like I did for seles), which really leaves brits, Han, and probably mauryans.

I like the idea for trade, maybe this is something I could work on later for the community mod. If we can get an idea for britons, I could go ahead and make a merge request for the team bonuses? Any others that are way too weak?

@chrstgtr i'm not sure how well that would go down as a team bonus. As for carry capacity, the minimal game impact was my concern as well, so thats why I think the barracks/stable cost could be good for pers. I think for trade to be important there may need to changes to the trading system as a whole. Currently Persia has a civ bonus of +25% trade gain and a team bonus of +15 percent trade gain, and still trade is not the reason to play Persia. Replacing the +15% team bonus with something else impactful won't change the usage of trade.

https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/commit/0590b62be8e473c70ad05b47070b5bc09e52b440 I am thinking for persia: +10% hp for ranged cavalry, kind of like the spartan bonus. other possibilities: cavalry 2X carry capacity (20 food -> 40) stables and barracks discount? call it "training regimes." I like this last one the best. Still no ideas for britons

I am wondering if the correct move is to nerf swordcav's pierce armor a little. They shouldn't be able to tank fire from the CC so easily as spear cavalry, right? I think with this change, p1 swordcav will be pretty well balanced (not significantly better than a skirmcav rush). My only concern would be sword cavalry's effectiveness later in the game. (unit specific upgrades again here could fix the latter issue)

So far I haven't made any nerfs for Han, but I can certainly see the issues you mention @hamdich. In addition, I think crossbows are a little bit overtuned, they probably need at least slower prepare time. I agree it is difficult to balance sword cavalry in p1, it may be the best choice to move them out of p1. As for acceleration and spear cavalry, I see the concern about spear cavalry having a hard time chasing. The first thing to note is that spear cavalry have 2 components that make chasing difficult: 1) stopping to attack and having to accelerate and 2) prepare time. Prepare time is a massive contributor because the spear cavalry must be stationary during prepare time. I actually have what I think is a nice solution to this, if people are interested. among my list of "unit specific upgrades" (see attached discussion) are 2 upgrades for spear cavalry: 1) Horse Racing: increased movement speed and much higher acceleration (phase 2) 2) Lancing tactics: increased pierce damage and decreased smaller prepare time. after testing, these changes made spear cavalry much more effective when chasing enemy cavalry, and the distinction is that these upgrades are unique to spear cavalry, so the upgrades act to differentiate spear cav nicely. I have not yet made a merge request for these upgrades (https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/tree/unit_upgrades), but I think they should be added to the community mod after balance changes and team bonus changes.

I imagine this will not be ready before the next release of the community mod, but I would like to do an update to team bonuses. I have started the project but not yet uploaded to Gitlab. The goal is to implement strong, generally applicable bonuses that allow for different gameplay options depending on a team's civ matchup. 1. Athens: -15% ship cost -> "Democracy" Civic centers -50% technology research time and -30% cost. 2. Seleucids: Civic centers -20% resources cost -> -20% resource and -20% build time. I need ideas for Britons, Persians, and Han first. Other team bonus ideas are welcome.

i think you might need an account, which is unfortunate. I think for that reason it might be better to vote here. @wraitii

click one of the merge requests and u should see thumbs up/thumbs down. I believe this is "upvoting" vs "downvoting"

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests I just tested the 4 merge requests I made, all are functioning as intended.

how do you vote? I just give a thumbs up.

this is pretty easy. If you want to test my changes, just clone my repo and copy the directory "community-mod" into ur 0ad mods folder. I will do this sometime soon for my merge requests.

i'd say we should have a more sizable set of changes to justify a release. Tournament concerns aside, we also don't want to annoy community mod users in general.

yes, @Philip the Swaggerless. It is hard to say. From what I have heard about @ValihrAnt's mod, it was well recieved. I bet it will change the game flow quite a bit to be honest.

ok: new values for CC: 300 wood, 300 stone, 250 metal new values for colony: 200 wood, 200 stone, 150 metal 80 75 meter radius. ^ maybe both the CC and colony should cost 150 metal. The rationale is that they both give a new territory root which is represented by the metal cost. In principle, for gaining a new position on the map (a foothold) a colony is just as useful as a cc, so in that regard colonies are much stronger. This is why the metal cost could be made the same.

I agree, we can pick a cost and try it out. I understand what you said about slingers, however, for the most part, stone is used mainly for p3 and fortress, with very little used for barracks stable. Right now stone is very underused for most civs. This is why I made the cc cost more stone than any other res. However, the symmetric wood and stone cost is probably better anyway, so I will change that. Should I increase wood for colonies or decrease stone? I am worried about colonies being too strong compared to CCs. perhaps with the reduction in area for each phase, I should decrease colony territory radius a little?

what about this? @chrstgtr@Philip the Swaggerless @ValihrAnt @LetswaveaBook

i guess so. I was thinking Marian reforms were enough justification, but perhaps they were more standardized later. To be honest, Rome has enough units in my mind already.

ok ok enough off topic. We can agree to test out this unit type in the mod no? I am on board with this. I am also on board with adding a centurion type unit for romans. Anyways, any other feedback on the 3 additional merge requests I added above? @BeTe my thoughts are expansion is not required but rather encouraged.

it would be nice to use a very general term so we don't need to worry about historical accuracy on a civ by civ basis. Alsoo, it would be obvious that it is the same unit with the same stats.

ok some additional merge requests: https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests 1. ptol houses -40% capture points, +50% build time (could be too much of a nerf, might make it 33% build time later) 2. axe cav buff: unit deals more damage 3. territory expansion and CC/colony cost: town and city phase territory increase is 25%, from 30% and 50% respectively CC cost: 300 wood, 350 stone, 100 metal colony cost: 150 wood, 200 stone, 100 metal. This change is designed to increase the importance of expansion and resource management. my thoughts are also that it will make maps "feel" larger, basically more options for strategy. compare to @ValihrAnt's mod:https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/68499-territory-mod/#comment-474946

We don't have to give athens 2 new top tier heroes. Just two heroes that are worth training. I can adjust their strength very easily, its just I thought Pericles in particular was a unique and interesting bonus.