PyrrhicVictoryGuy

In regards to what few structures are left we have the temples close to Akragas, also the big bronze boy ain't the only one so it is safe to say that statues like this could have appeared elsewhere in Sicily. In the following 2 pictures one can see more details from the temples here. I mentioned the temple of Athena that was tunerd into a cathedral, well here is a piece of the facade in the frist picture and the latter illustration depicts the side on the temple, pay attention the upper part.

Thing is, a lot of structures were either left to the elements or worse, built over like what happened to the temple of Athena that became a cathedral.

The problem is the following, how do we make bactria different enough from persians and greeks to justify adding them? The roster proposed is fine but bland regretfully.

Thanks a lot man for creating it!!

Nice, I had the idea from AOE 3, were ranged troops automaticaly switch to melee mode with attacked by a melee unit and a post here on the forums. I only gave them one spear cav unit and a skirmisher cav, do you think they need more? And what about their infantry skirmisher being weaker than normal skirmishers.

@alre My main problem with them are: are they possible to make them? If not them would just default them to be beefy javeliners. If yes then how to balance their stats so they don't dominate everything .

I mean by the time of Agathocles, Syracuse would have also reformed their skirmisher corps into a heavier version,the heavier peltast would be the elite part of such corps and it would reasonable to assume that a ruler would want these to be with him on the battlefield. Peltasts on wings ready to both flank, harass and who else is the wings, namely the right wing? The general. But yeah you also make a good point since there are no real evidence for this type troop being a bodyguard.

Having the player juggle between citizens, women and slaves for resource gathering is not more convenient.

I have updated that first tech's description but I think giving mercs a decreased coin cost in exchange for an increased cost of other resources would work fine I think. As for champions you mentioned i wanted them to be javelinners and swordsmen, but i don't know if this is possible, if it is then i would make them use javelins if target is more than for meters away (4 < x ) and use swords if target is within 4 meters of them ( x < 4 ).

I have come up with this: Mercenary Loyalty All mercenaries have their metal cost decreased by 45%, their food cost increased by 30% (and maybe an addidtional cost of 20 stone) Cost: 200 wood 300 stone What do u think?

I am also concerned that i have made the heroes too OP.

I have updated the document, namely I have added some unique techs as well as giving Gelo I some cavalry bonuses since he was famous for his role as a cavalry comander under the previous tyrant of Gela whom I believe he was related.

Agreed, nothing worse than catching your opponent in a bad position only to find that punishing him is very hard. To mitigate this annoyance I sugest taking a page out of AO3 and having units that are being attacked by melee troops having their normal run speed reduced to their walking speed.

@alreI didn't find anything that would sugest having elephants whatsoever, although I included them for two reasons. Firstly because I wanted to spice up the mercenary roster since this is a mercenary heavy civ and lastly because they would certainly have acess to them via trade with ptolemaic egypt or with the seleucids even if very unlikely. After Pyrrhus' use of elephants and their widespread use among the eastern Greeks, Hellenistic Syracuse would be tempted to get a few of them for sure so i don't think it is a major no no.

I refrained from Archemides' Claw because nobody truly knows how it was built and what it looked like. The death ray would be pretty cool but the historians would immediatly raise their pitchforks.

Thanks a lot ! Although it is true that other than the Guadalquivir and Donut maps water is scarse but i think giving them a pond may be too much no ? They already give a trade bonus to caravans to their entire team and already have that "super" fortress. I was afraid of making them too bloated.

Yeah, form what i read, the belly xbow is attributed to Dionysius' court, I like the p2 champs idea, hell even p2 heroes could be a thing. As for mercenaries tech, something like "Mercenary loyalty", that decreases the cost of mercs by 30% , at a steep cost or a tech available after researching "expertise in war" , named "Veteran mercenaries" that upgrades all mercs to rank 3 and small health boost of 10%.

But I am struggling with unique techs.

Gotta love your enthusiasm.

Syracusans/Sicilian Greeks Civilization Profile Overview and Introduction Flavour text for the struture tree Long as Syracuse championed its citizen’s and fellow Greek’s independence, be it against Carthaginians or Romans. As a Doric colony it kept ties to other Doric cities in the Greek mainland. Although brief respites form their conflict with Carthage did occour under some of its rulers, the city's history is dominated by their wars with Carthage and other Greeks and the eventual concession of its autonomy to Rome. For my first faction I designed so it has a less orthodox playstyle to what I became accustomed during Alpha 24, my aim was to make an amphibious and mercenary civ where a rush or semi-rush pays off. So, I tried to bring new ideas to table and these will be further discussed during the champion and hero rosters sections. I also tried my best to make a civilization that doesn’t require too many new assets because people’s time is short. As for the values present, these can and will probably change with each revision of this document. Disclaimer: I do not know nor studied attic, doric and koine greek so the few names of the units that I present can and will most likely have speling errors, not be in the right order syntax wise and probably not be all from the same dialect but I tried to post this by standards of similar posts. I had images for this but they did not show up when i copied this from Word and adding them is a pain so... #NR means not researched...,yet. Faction Bonuses Jewel of the Mediterranean Grain gather rate increased by 10% gather rate Mercenary Loyalty A lot of mercenaries were employed for life under some of the tyrants and not just in time of conflict like the Sileraioi who were given land and accomodations, so in a way this a precursor the cleruchy system of the sucessors. The metal cost of italian and iberian mercenaries ( italian swordsman, iberian swordsman, tarantine cavalry) is decreased by 45% Team bonus: Trade Empire +10% international trade goods for self and allies Unique techs Archemides' Screw More water = better sanitation, better crops, more hydration = healthier and more citizens. Also in the abssence of conveyer belts water canals can and would be used to carry crude mineral chunks. Replaces the "Gather training" upgrade at the farmstead. Phase II, farmstead +10% grain gather rate for all units +10% faster metal collection for all units Cost: 300 wood 300 metal Ballistics Phase III, artilery foundry Adds/Increases area damage on siege engines by (x) aumount and increases their projectile speed. 300 stone 300 metal Archimedes Odometer Phase II Available at the CC Structures are built 20% faster. Cost: 100 stone 200 metal Secret Police Phase I, sentry tower +10 meters of LOS ( line of sight) to all structures. Cost: 400 food Solar Tower A complementary upgrade for the sentry tower, now the player has the choice to upgrade it to the stone tower or to the Solar Tower which does reduced damage to units but excels in damaging ships and siege machines. Phase I, sentry tower Upgrades the sentry tower into the solar tower Cost: 150 wood 150 stone Mamertines A one time, instantaneous shipment of 20 mamertines (italian swordsmen, same stats as the roman champ swordsmen) to the Tyrant's Palace. Available at CC, p3 Cost: 2000 food 3000 metal Doric camaraderie A one time, instantaneous shipment of 20 spartiates (spartan champ hoplite) to the Tyrant's Palace. Available at CC, p3 Cost: 2000 food 3000 metal Technology Tree Structures As Syracuse was a colony of Corinth, it should heavily feature Doric Architecture, much like Sparta. Although unlike the Spartans, Corinth and Syracuse seemed to have inherited a love for monumental buildings and public works from the Attic region. In short, make it so their buildings have the Sparta template but more embellished (and maybe replace the roof tiles with the roman ones). I don’t expect any new models to be developed ASAP for this and it is acceptable since I haven’t the skills required and am at the mercy of some good souls willing to model these. As for buildings available, these should be standard Greek roster available to Sparta, Athens and Macedon but I do propose 2 unique/special buildings for this faction (whose names in Greek I have yet to research) and I also propose that Syracusans only be able to build/have one Civic Centre, representing Syracuse itself and making for a risk reward type thing when attacking/rushing. Seaside Outpost/fortified port Syracuse itself went on to expand their influence over other territories through colonies of its own although these were more akin to fortified trading posts than full blown colonies, much like the Portuguese Feitoria. Can only be placed along shorelines and functions like a cross between a military colony and a market, where one can send caravans to. Can’t train ships except for the merchant vessel but can heal all ships, otherwise it can train caravans, one champion and some of the mercs available to this civ. This building will also have a technology that improves trade goods received by caravans that visit this building, again building on that risk/reward thing. Its cost should also be between a military colony and a CC. Tyrant’s Fortress/Palace A reference to the fortress of Euryalos. Essentially a better fortress that trains two of these civ’s champions(crossbowman and tyrant's bodyguard) and its heroes in addition to the “will to fight” tech that all civs have. A player can only have one of these per match (if not possible to implement this, then it could have a max count of 1). It won’t be any more expensive than a normal fortress and doesn’t replace it. Serves as an territory anchor like a CC. Wonder: Hieron’s Altar Unit Roster For my first draft of this civ I have 11 units planned, 3 citizen soldiers, 5 mercenaries and 3 champions. For this next section I will specify which buildings train what units using the following template, building, citizen soldiers, mercenaries, champions. Citizen soldiers -Syracusan Hoplite Generic name: Syracusan hoplite Specific name: Hoplites sikeliotes Pierce armament: Dori spear Attire: Unit variants should bear the Montefortino, Italo-Attic and Corinthian helmets . Rank 1 gets a tunic and one of the greaves, rank 2 gets the linothorax and both greaves and finally rank 3 gets the feathers in the helmets mentioned and a tri-disc cuirass over the linothorax. Aspis shield should have marine elements in it (dolphins, tridents, nymphs like the oceanids, pegaeae or the nereids or hell even Arethousa herself). Stats: Health: 100 Hack Damage: 2.5 Pierce Damage: 3 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1 Range:4 Hack Armor: 5 Pierce Armor: 5 Crush Armor: 10 Walk Speed: 9 Run Speed: 15 Cost: 50 food 50 wood Loot: 5 food 5 wood 100 exp - Sicanian skirmisher Generic name: Sicanian skirmisher Specific name: Peltastes sikeliotes Ranged armament: Javelins Attire: Pelta shield obvs. Rank 1 has a straw hat, simple tunic and no greaves, rank 2 gets a chalcidean helmet and a decorative unic, rank 3 gets padded armor and a chlamys. Note: to make this a more “aggressive” civ and to drive the player to use mercs and champs these should have slightly worse stats than a standard skirmisher, -10% health. (Also, I don’t like how armies right now are like 4/6 ranged and 2/6 melee so that is also a factor in this choice of mine). Stats: Health: 40 Hack Damage:0 Pierce Damage: 16 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1.25 Range: 30 Hack Armor: 1 Pierce Armor: 1 Crush Armor: 10 Walk Speed: 10.8 Run Speed: 18 Cost: 50 food 50 wood Loot: 5 food 5 wood 80 exp -Greek Lancer Generic name: Greek cavalry Specific name: Hippeus Melee armament: Xyston Attire: Rank 1 has a straw hat, linothorax and no greaves, rank 2 gets a boeotian or a boeotian-variant helmet and a chlamys, rank 3 gets a plume in their helmet. Stats: Health: 160 Hack Damage: 4 Pierce Damage: 3 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1 Range: 6 Hack Armor: 4 Pierce Armor: 4 Crush Armor: 15 Walk Speed: 18 Run Speed: 25.5 Cost: 100 food 50 wood Loot: 10 food 5 wood 130 exp Mercenaries - Italian Swordsman Generic name: Italian Swordsman Specific name: "something" xiphophoros Melee armament: Xiphos Note: we can use the swordsman merc model of Carthage’s Italian embassy. I named them italian swordsman because making a unit for mamertines, campanian, sileraioi and samnites mercenaries is redundant. Stats: Health: 100 Hack Damage: 5.5 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 0.75 Range: 3 Hack Armor: 5 Pierce Armor: 5 Crush Armor: 15 Walk Speed: 9 Run Speed: 14 Cost: 20 food 35 metal Loot: 2 food 6 metal 100 exp -Cretan archer Generic name: Cretan archer Specific name: Toxotes Kretaikos Note: There is already a model for these in game so no point in describing this one further Stats: Health: 60 Hack Damage: 0 Pierce Damage: 6.7 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1 Range: 60 Hack Armor: 1 Pierce Armor: 2 Crush Armor: 10 Walk Speed: 10.8 Run Speed: 18 Cost: 20 food 60 metal Loot: 2 food 6 metal 100 exp -Tarantine Cavalry Generic name: Tarantine Skirmisher Cavalry Specific name: Hippeus Tarantinos Ranged armament: Javelins and pelte shield Attire: NR Stats: Health: 100 Hack Damage: 0 Pierce Damage: 18 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1.25 Range: 30 Hack Armor: 3 Pierce Armor: 1 Crush Armor: 15 Walk Speed: 15 Run Speed: 21 Cost: 50 food 50 metal Loot: 6 food 8 metal 120 exp -War Elephant Generic name: African War Elephant Specific name: NR Note: The only mercenary elephant in the game and as such it should have a very steep cost. Stats: Health: 500 Hack Damage: 30 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage: 70 Interval: 1.5 Hack Armor: 10 Pierce Armor: 10 Crush Armor: 20 Walk Speed: 9 Run Speed: 15 Cost: 300 food 160 metal Loot: 30 food 16 metal 250 exp -Iberian Swordsman Generic name: Iberian light swordsman Specific name: Hacker armament: Falcata and buckler Function: These are to be a pseudo glass cannon, less armour but more hack damage and more speed when compared to the standard merc swordsman. We can recycle the Iberian CS model. (Bootleg skiritai) Stats: Health: 80 Hack Damage: 6.5 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 0.75 Range: 3 Hack Armor: 4 Pierce Armor: 2 Crush Armor: 10 Walk Speed: 11 Run Speed: 16 Cost: 20 food 30 metal Loot: 2 food 6 metal 70 exp Champions The champion infantry of this faction can only be trained intialy at the regular fortresses and at the special buildings mentioned above but will be available at the barracks after the player researches the "unlock champions" tech. -Syracusia (Ship) Note: historically it was known to have been a gift to the Ptolemies and was more of a show of whealth but you can´t make a champion function as a ferry only. Generic name: Syracusia Specific name: Syracusia Armament: ram and arrow towers Function: A really big ship, should be extremely expensive and slow but can be garrisoned like a tower to increase its firepower. It must also be capable of holding 50 soldiers. -Crossbowman Generic name: Crossbowman Specific name: Gastraphetephoros Armament: gastraphetes Attire: Similar to their Macedonian counterpart Stats: Health: 120 Hack Damage: 0 Pierce Damage: 40 Crush Damage: Interval: 2.5 Range: 60 Hack Armor: 5 Pierce Armor: 5 Crush Armor: 20 Walk Speed: 10.8 Run Speed: 18 Cost: 80 food 60 wood 80 metal Loot: 8 food 6 wood 8 metal -Tyrants’ guard/bodyguard Generic name: Tyrants’ Peltasts Specific name: Somatophylax tou tyrannou Melee armament: javelins, kopis and aspis Attire: As per the nature of their role and their value as a hybrid, high priority unit, they should be easily recognized in game, so I’m going to kill two birds with one stone by making them the flashiest units in game. Certainly, a tyrant would want show his wealth not only by investing in his personal image but also his entourage’s, the more decorated the panoply, the better. Firstly, their body armour, bronze muscle cuirass or an iron linothorax, like the one Phillip II uses in game. Both greaves made of bronze/iron and of course a cape. The helmet could be either a thracian or a late attic plumed . Function: The star of the roster for sure, this is meant to be a hybrid unit, a heavy peltast, cross between a skirmisher and a swordsman that is capable of both ranged and melee damage. The idea came to me after browsing Yekaterina’s post about making such a unit, basically my idea was that the damage type be exclusive to each “mode” of the unit, these “modes” could be toggled manually via formations but if this isn’t possible then have them only get in melee when right in front of another unit (< 4 meters). As they are also swordsmen, they can deal with CS infantry with varying degrees of cost-effectiveness. Naturally their counter would be cavalry. Finally, as to balance them I was thinking they could have an increased prepare time or downright less attack speed on their ranged stance. These should also have just a bit less health (than normal champ swordsmen) so that lose to other sword champs if none of their shots landed or if they hadn’t had a chance to fire but should be able to win if at least two or three shots connect before going into melee. Range Stance's Stats: Health: Hack Damage: Pierce Damage: Crush Damage: Hack Armor: Pierce Armor: Crush Armor: Walk Speed: Run Speed: Cost: Loot: Melee Stance's Stats: Health: Hack Damage: Pierce Damage: Crush Damage: Hack Armor: Pierce Armor: Crush Armor: Walk Speed: Run Speed: Cost: Loot: Heroes For this section I choose not to include any post Pyrrhus heroes and instead opted for the first dynast of each dynasty pre epirote influence . Gelo/Gelon I Elitism: Champions and cavalry train 15% faster while citizen soldier infantry train 10% slower. Cavalry Commander: Citizen and mercenary cavalry within a (Y) radius of Gelon receive a +2 crush, hack and pierce armour in addition to a 30% line of sight increase. To fit his bonuses and history, he would have to belong to the spear cavalry category but it is imperative that he posseces a more classical look than the following heroes, maybe a boeotian helmet with a laurel crown and a simple plume would fit him nicely: #Here is the crowned boeotian helmet in-game, to which I have added 3 plumes( i think they are props), just to give an even better idea of what I am talking about: Stats: Health: 1100 Hack Damage: 16 Pierce Damage: 14 Crush Damage: 0 Range: 6 Interval: 1.25 Hack Armor: 11 Pierce Armor: 10 Crush Armor: 25 Walk Speed: 19 Run Speed: 25 Cost: 300 food 200 wood 250 metal Loot: 10 food 50 metal 400 exp Dionysius I One the most infamous tyrants of Sicily, his contributions go from upgrading the walls of the city to furthering the development of siege machines. Dionysian Walls: Defensive structures get a 10% health boost (palisades, stone walls, fortresses, civic centres and all towers). Court Engineers: Siege units have their attack speed and movement increased by 20% in a (k) radius. As for his physical model I couldn't find much but following picture gave me the idea of giving him a linothorax, maybe scaled, underneath a chlamys, kinda like Themistocles in-game: #i also think he should be a sword cav hero Stats: Health: 1200 Hack Damage: 20 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage:0 Range: 5 Interval: 0.75 Hack Armor: 11 Pierce Armor: 9 Crush Armor: 25 Walk Speed:18 Run Speed: 25.2 Cost: 300 food 100 wood 200 metal Loot: 10 food 10 wood 50 metal 400 exp Agathocles Another famous ruler that, much like Hannibal during the 2nd Punic war, brought the fight his enemy’s doorstep, somewhat shielding(not really tho) his own territory. He also burned his ships after disembarking in Africa, that way his mercs and soldiers were in a do or die situation. Natural Leader: +50% capture points in a (j) radius for both allies and your own troops. Relentless Advance: Mercenaries and citizen soldiers gain experience 10% faster (this, I think can be done by multiplying the experience points given by enemies in (x) radius or by multiplying the experience received by friendlies in (x) range of him). For his appearance and unit class I was thinking that he could be an infantry spearman, something like this: # Maybe a cloak or something to make him more distinguishable. Stats: Health: 1000 Hack Damage: 10 Pierce Damage: 10 Crush Damage:0 Hack Armor: 10 Pierce Armor: 11 Crush Armor: 20 Walk Speed: 10 Run Speed: 18 Cost: 200 food 300 wood 150 metal Loot: 5 food 15 metal 400 exp

When i say auto pilot units I mean units that require little to no micro to be effective.

By genocide aspect of the games i suspect u mean using those auto pilot units that shall not be named...

Well i would to see each spearman have different stats. Hoplites have big aspis which is way better that a whicker shield used by persian spearmen so hoplite pierce armor > sparabara pierce armor for example. So diferent civs would have to take different aproaches to the same scenario. Another example, tarantine skirm cav could also have better pierce armor than numidian or asian skirm cav that use the pelta.

Musks could kill all but the heaviest of cavalry in melee and still in the few engagements cavalry won , it was not cost effective at all.

Well you would think a guy with a musket would have trouble against a horseman right? Well, in their wisdom the devs decided that the british civ needed to have a jack of all trades unit, normally a simple spearman/ pikeman can do this( is good against cav and can tank a bit) but they decided to make a ranged unit that is tankier than a pikeman and can also take down cav , much like the pikeman. After this, they had to give almost every civ in the game a musketeer type unit and also make another ranged unit that countered musks other tha artilery before release. In conclusion , everyone has a musketeer which can do a lot of things( boring autopilot unit, melee units except for the generic melee cav are useless( very very situational) and units that an extensive melee roster are gimped, therefore the game gets stale very fast as only the cards system and some unique units differentiate 2/3 civs. That is why i don't like how everyone in 0 AD has a spearman.