Carltonus
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Posts posted by Carltonus
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4 minutes ago, Stan` said:
For the last one, were you generating a map?
I don't remember generating such a map, but I did edit and play-test the Macedonian campaign by @SciGuy42.
After that, I played a game of Corinthian Isthmus (4 players), forgetting to reveal the whole map, and for a while commanded my AI ally's hoplites. Crash happened sometime around when my other AI opponents were trying to penetrate my walls for a second time. Was able to use the save option a few times until warnings appeared that forbade me to save further.
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10 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
About Perioikoi phalangites, it's advantageous from a gameplay POV to have some kind of citizen-soldier trained from the Syssition (aka Spartan barracks). And it's a nice 1 to 1 swap to swap Perioikoi hoplites to Perioikoi phalangites. We can rename them to something else of course though (they don't have to be called Perioikoi phalangites).
If not perioikoi (dwellers around), one other option is the symmachoi (allied [Greeks]), which connotes most likely non-Spartans. Probably mercenaries as well.
Since you said "citizen-soldier", the ambiguity between perioikoi and Spartiates begins to appear. Might as well make the phalangites Spartiates, and the champion thorakitai phalangitai (link is for the Antigonid faction).Other options have to be kept open. Here are all the available hoplites and phalangites for the Spartan faction in the Divide et Impera mod that might help you. At least one non-Skiritai hoplite unit still needs to be intact, or that hoplite/spearman unit can be an symmachoi that replaces the already-existing Pelopponesian Hoplite mercenary. What do you think?
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Using Alt while dragging works for the grass, but rubble_rome_sb (the destroyed Roman camp) still cannot be selected. Is this a bug?
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I can edit the scenario maps now. Very nice.
But there is one more thing missing: how do I delete already-placed actors? The destroyed Roman camp in the first campaign has to go, and the grass models need to move.
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To be historically fair, the Silver Shield hypaspists upgrade should be exclusive to Alexander (and optionally, whenever a Maurya or some other Hindu faction is in play). The Somatophylakes (royal bodyguards) upgrade should be exclusive to both Philip and Alexander (maybe Demetrius?). These can be some of the hidden upgrades in the faction.
I wholly admit that in Total War: Rome II the separation of perioikoi and Spartan phalangite is most likely not historically accurate, and is exclusive from the game. The Divide et Impera mod kind of fixed that historical error with only one kind of pikemen for the faction: Neohomoioi Phalangitai. Mea culpa. So the hoplites are still mandatory, but their gear should be "updated" to Hellenistic times. If you have any alternatives and/or more additions/revisions to the reformed Spartans, let me know. A separate (sub-)faction would've been better, since at least two more heroes (Agis IV, Nabis, you name them) can be implemented with this.
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The downloaded maps still cannot be opened in Atlas. After clicking open, there is a selection of maps (Skirmish, Scenarios, Tutorials) based on the C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\0 A.D. alpha\binaries\data\mods\public\public.zip folder. How to make it open maps from anywhere?
The Trac article never tells that procedure.
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What I mean is, @Stan` and @SciGuy42, are there instructions to open downloaded map(s)? Since I can't do that on a vanilla game and Atlas, which opens the ones on the public .zip folder. Trac doesn't give much.
Not registered to GitHub, and might not want to. Could post the finished product(s) here.
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These maps seem to be needing some visual improvements. Does anyone know how to edit these scenario maps? The Trac article on the Atlas Editor doesn't mention such steps. Hope it doesn't affect the trigger(s).
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20 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:
During the Peloponesian war Iberian mercenaries were recruited from Sicily by Alcibiades.
That would require the creation of a second Athenian faction (Pelopponesian Wars era), since an Alcibiades actor has to be made.
@av93, @fatherbushido, @Genava55, and @wowgetoffyourcellphone: have you all reached a consensus? My preceding proposal(s) could have some improvement.
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2 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:
My take on that:
Athenians
Barracks
- Iberian Mercenary swordsman
I don't recall in the history of classical Athens hiring mercenaries from the other end of the Mediterranean, but nice try. The alternative of mercenary Thracians wielding rhomphaia makes more sense. Armor or gear can be the same for the peltasts.
The issue, @Ultimate Aurelian, is fixing the anachronisms of two classical-era factions (6th-4th century BC) regarding champion units (from the deprecating Royal Stoa) wielding ~3rd century BC thureos shields: the skirmishers (javelineers) and one or two swordsmen. Such units go to a Reform/Hellenistic (sub-)faction if one is willing to create a modification.
Have methods such as CTRL+click or icon in the HUD interface already tried for secondary weapon attack in the past?
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OK, here's the proposed breakdown for the next alpha:
Athenians
Since we already have a champion swordsman (Athenian Marine) from the port, the swordsman can either be a mercenary Thracian, citizen hoplite, or champion hoplite.
Barracks
- Athenian Hoplite - citizen hoplite
- + Athenian Hoplite? - citizen swordsman, either by switching or separate recruitment
- Psiloi - citizen slinger
- Thracian Peltast - Thracian mercenary javelineer
- + Rhomphaiaphoros - Thracian mercenary swordsman (not champion as the deprecating Stoa, but like the Seleucid counterpart, replaces Black Cloak)
Gymnasium
- Epilektos - champion hoplite
- + Epilektos? - champion swordsman, either by switching or separate recruitment (replaces Thorakites)
- + Iphicratean Akontistes/Light Peltast - champion javelineer (replaces already-existing Theurophoros)
- Scythian Archer - champion archer
Spartans
Barracks
- Perioikoi Hoplite - citizen hoplite
- + Perioikoi Hoplite? - citizen swordsman (replaces already exisitng Rhomphaiaphoros)
- Helot Skirmisher - "citizen" javelineer (akontistes)
- (Helot Slinger and/or Archer - "citizen" slinger/archer, optional, but some modifications have slingers)
- Skiritai Commando - elite citizen swordsman
- + Skiritai Peltast - elite citizen javelineer (replaces already-exisiting Theurophoros)
Syssition
- Spartiatis - champion hoplite
- + Spartiatis? - champion swordsman (replaces already-existing Thorakites)
If the new proposed swordsmen be hoplites, they should also assume the phalanx position as if they wielded spears. The other option is that the hoplites (citizen, epilektos, Spartan) can change from dory to xiphos so they can be swordsmen, and switch back to dory if needed. Make the switching for citizen hoplites require Town Phase or a Town Phase upgrade from the Barracks if you want.
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If I recall correctly, the next alpha will have the Thracian Black Cloak exclusive to the Macedonians, and the Royal Stoa deprecated. Since the Athenian and Spartan factions are still based on the classical era, here are my suggestions regarding replacements for the Stoa mercenaries:
The Athenian champion skirmishers could be like in the images below:
The helmets could be replaced with the ones on the former, and the thureos shield could be replaced with a rounder pelte on the latter. The Athenian version of the Black Cloaks can be replaced with generic mercenary Thracian swordsmen like the Seleucids.
For the Spartans, the champion skirmishers can also be Skiritai (Ekdromos?) with a small round shield; like this image below (but lose the anachronistic Hellenistic gear):
If there are no alternatives, the mercenary swordsman can also be generic Thracian. Until secondary weapons can be a thing, I don't think there is an alternative for the Thorakites except if you want to add a separate Spartiate Hoplite swordsman. How about Spartan Youths (in Total War: Rome II)? If implemented, it can be a champion hoplite with the statistics of a Naked Fanatic.
There should be a way to toggle between Classical and Hellenistic/Reformed as sub-factions of some sort.
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@Nescio could help with the passages from Herodotus, Plato, and Plutarch, if that might help you.
Are you planning to split the Athenian faction into two or three factions (by era) as well?
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To make things simpler, let us first discuss about the units, namely:
- Carthaginian champion pikeman
- Gastraphetes (belly bow)
- Bactrian horse archer
- Arstibara (Apple bearers)
- Nubian mercenary archer
- Imperial legionnaire and centurion
- Spartan Pikeman (or Reformed Phalangite)
- Theban champions: Sacred Band hoplite and Thespian Black Cloak swordsman
(Printscreen image(s) will be here after an edit or two)
The Carthaginian pikeman is found on the "Egypt" skirmish map. Was this unit trainable in a previous alpha, and are there plans to re-introduce this unit in the future? Same goes to the Bactrian horse archer (already in modifications).
The apple bearers appear to be a deprecated unit, replaced by the anusiya (Persian Immortal). Same question as above.
If I recall correctly, the Gastraphetes is going to be implemented in the next alpha as a siege unit for the Macedonians.
Nubian mercenary archers can be found in the "Egypt" skirmish map if playing the Ptolemies. Was this also a remnant from a previous alpha?
The Imperial legionnaire and centurion can be found in the "Egypt" skirmish map if playing the Romans. If you let a Marian legionnaire gain some experience in "Gallic Fields", he might promote into the former. Other than that, these two are best preferred to be in a late Republic faction or in Empires Beseiged.
The Spartan pikeman is best used in a separate Reformed Spartans faction (in a future release, alongside with other new Hellenistic factions).
Theban Sacred Band hoplites can be found in the "Peloponnesean Wars" scenario map when playing as Thebes. Other than in Delenda Est, is the Theban faction going to be part of the family in a future release?
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This is for discussion and suggestions regarding unused entities, units, etc. in Atlas since Alpha 23. If there is already an existing thread or threads regarding this, please refer me to such.
Good to know that stables and siege workshops are going to be standard in Alpha 24.
In order in the list of entities:
- Campaign folders are for entities in campaign "maps" not intended to on played on like a normal game.
- Celtic hut and longhouse remnants from previous alphas. Make them equal to houses?
- Desert trading post models are the same as the Persian market ones.
- Fences (the long, short, and stone) are select-able and attack-able.
- Hellenic Epic Temple, despite being in an skirmish map (Greek Acropolis?), is basically a modified Parthenon acting as a large Temple.
- Hellenic Proplyea (entrance to a temple), suggest making it garrison-able if it serves no other purpose.
- Palisade angle spikes should not have rubble when destroyed, should be able to take many hits from spears and arrows, and should be easily vulnerable to swords, axes, and crushing attacks. How about making them anti-cavalry stakes?
- Wooden Watchtower can be garrisoned by one unit or small siege engine.
- Small spikes can be like caltrops, dealing damage to any units going through. Tall spikes can be barricades.
- Corinthian (Seleucid) colonnade.
- Table (both rectangle and square variants)
- Default fishing boats, trading ships, and biremes should be added, not just triremes.
- Babylonian defense tower should be for the Aristea mod unless any scenario has them for a reason.
- Outposts may need to be unique models for every faction, current one can be put for one faction/civilization or in the "other" folder if generic.
- Melonas (rotary mill) is going to be deprecated, suggest a use for Millenium A.D. factions (Anglo Saxons, Carolingians)?
- Does the next alpha allows upgrading Carthaginian houses into apartments? Borg's mod already does this.
- Carthaginian embassy (the large one), suggest that it can hire all seven mercenaries from the three embassies.
- Carthaginian small wall gate is the same as the palisade's
- Tophet, the other Carthaginian temple.
- Persian apartment block, found in "Egypt" skirmish map, suggest that it can be like Delenda Est's insula, built in the City phase and housing many.
- Persian houses A and B also found in "Egypt" skirmish map, suggest that can be built in the Town phase.
- Persian inn, remnant from a previous alpha.
- Persian tačara can function like the apadana (palace), summoning hero and anusiya.
- Where can you find the texture and/or model for the lighthouse in the 4-player "Corinthian Isthmus" map? Different texture than the buildable Ptolemaic one.
- Temple of Mars also found on Egypt skirmish map.
- Tent (tabernaculum) can be built by Roman citizen soldiers, and can be transferred like yurts for only food (carried by donkey or horse-drawn cart).
- Roman Triumphal arch also found on Egypt skirmish map. Imperial Roman special building for Empires Besieged?
- Spartan gerontía/gerousia (senate?) should be like the Athenian prythaneon. Currently only Leonidas can be trained, why not the other two heroes and some upgrades? Found in an old tutorial from a previous alpha.
- Athenian gastraphetes currently uses the Scythian archer portrait.
- Xenophon should be a cavalry swordsman hero.
- Boudicca's cavalry javelineer and infantry swordsman forms.
- Carthaginian champion pikemen, also found on Egypt skirmish map.
- Arstibara (apple bearers), probably the same stats as (and right clicking the icon shows) the anusiya.
- Persian champion cavalry archer currently has same portrait as the champion cavalry spearman. Some mods correct this.
- Ptolemaic Nubian mercenary archer.
- Roman imperial legionnaire and centurion are also in Egypt map. Marian legionnaires can be found in Gallic Fields map, takes experience to promote to imperial legionnaire.
- Roman onagers do not pack. Delenda Est kind of fixes this problem.
- Spartan pikeman. Delenda Est has a trainable version of this unit.
- Theban Fire Raiser, Sacred Band Hoplite, and Thespian swordsman are in Delenda Est, but the Sacred Band Hoplite is also found in the Pelopponesian Wars scenario map.
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This could be a tall order: choosing Cleomenes III should also replace the mercenary Pelopponesian Hoplite with Thureos Spearman and bring back the Thorakites (from vanilla), probably as surprises--not seen in his card. If the tokens feature allows, all other units may need to be wearing new Hellenistic armor to match with the reforms and times. The Divide et Impera modification for Total War Rome II could be a good inspiration:
https://divideetimperamod.com/sparta/ and http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?745696
The Spartan reformed phalangite may need variants with and without capes, as seen in the latter link. Remind you also the new arrow curtains (shield capes) for the elite Periokoi hoplites.
Edit: Eventually, like the Romans, the Spartans may have to be split into two factions: Greco-Persian and Pelopponesian Wars, and Hellenistic (Reformed), as to reflect the change in gear.For the Persians, would suggest Artaxerxes III and Darius III; that is, if you don't have others for consideration. For the former, Mithraism affects Citizen and Temple upgrades (and maybe something else); while the latter allows hiring Kardakes mercenaries at the barracks, fixing the historical inconsistency. With the tokens feature, like Chankya, a secondary hero can be chosen. In this case, you could choose one from at least two satraps, dynasts, generals, or others loyal to the Empire. For example, the two Artemisias, one with her bow and the other the Mausoleum.
The Alpha 23 Han Xin comes out with the cavalry completed sound but as a spear infantry, a bug? https://github.com/0ADMods/han_china has Wei Qing as a hero crossbowman.
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Here are some Old Japanese terms for those who are willing to add voices for the faction.
Verbs are in conclusive/imperative forms unless someone else has a better suggestion.- Yes? Wo
- What is it? Nani?
- My lord? Wa ga (opo)kimi?
- Walk Ayu-mu/-me, Töpo-ru/-re (literally "travel"), I-ku/ke or Yu-ku/-ke (both literally "go" or "move")
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Build Ta-tu/-teyö
- Repair Tukurö-pu/-pe
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Attack Osö-pu/-pe or Se-mu/-mëyö
- Strike/Hit Tata-ku/-ke
- Shoot I-ru/-yö
- Capture Tö-ru/-re
- Heal Napo-su/-se
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Gather Ka-ru/-re or Atu-mu/-mëyö (literally "collect")
- Hunt Asa-ru/-re
- Fish Iza-ru/-re
- Farm Tuku-ru/-re
- Garrison Papi-ru/Papi-re (literally "go inside") or Mö-ru/Mö-re (literally "protect")
- Row Kö-gu/-ge or Kögii-du/-deyö (literally "row out")
Will edit this post for Ainu units.
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The Pharos lighthouse (and other lighthouses in modifications) can be seagulls and fire.
Archery Range selection can be only one shot arrow hitting a target, unlike the building completed sound.
Roman Ampitheater, same with the Theatron, except the music is replaced with gladiators clashing and applause with typical audience cheering.
Remogantion, same with the Theatron, except the music is replaced with carnyx sounds.
For the Naos Parthenon (the Epic Temple building, not the wonder), instead of the usual Temple sound, how about chanting "Pallas Athena" or a related oblation?
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16 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
I wouldn't mind having swapping unit rosters (Classical/Hellenistic) based on if you train Cleomenes or not, but I don't want to do it until there's a way to make items disappear out of the gui. For example, I don't want the barracks and blacksmith and fortress to have a bunch of grayed out Hellenistic stuff if you chose Leonidas. For now I created a happy medium. If we get that ability to remove items from the production queue ui, then I'm all for your idea. Consider it on the back burner until the UI code is extended.
@borg-'s mod (if I recall correctly again) summons heroes only once, and cannot be re-trained when they "die". Selected hero disappears from choice with each summoning. Is the coding required similar to that?
The Maurya catafalque must be renamed if Bindusara is to be added to the Maurya hero roster. Probably an Buddhist relic instead of an important person? Same goes with some of the other catafalques in other factions.
For the Roman Republic, Gaius Claudius Nero could be a potential fourth; but if you don't want too much focus on the Punic Wars, would suggest Scipio Asiaticus.
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The last six Maurya emperors didn't have much foreign (Greek) contact if I recall correctly, so Bindusara can be a potential third. It is fine to put Porus as a fourth if you can't think of a Atlas-/scenario-only option. Also looks like a sub-hero system may be going in place.
@wowgetoffyourcellphone: have you thought of an answer to my previous question? To repeat: if your chosen hero dies, will you have the opportunity to choose another hero from the list, or the only same hero (and sub-heroes) is played for the rest of the game? If no, the discussion regarding Spartan pikemen (and some other hero-required units and upgrades) could continue.
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Team color can be put on where there is red/crimson: face paint, hair tie, and armor trim and straps. Since the units will be mostly based on Nakanishi's art, decided to revise the ranks. Tunics can be white or light brown (from that lone axeman).
Militia swordsman/axeman and two-handed spearman:
- Basic: No armour, can wear tunic or topless, basic wooden shield
- Advanced: Basic wooden breastplate and shield (could be painted, latter for swordsman)
- Elite: Face paint (optional), mokusei katchū and large painted shield with metal sun disc (swordsman), wooden cuirass (spearman)
Militia archer/hunter:
- Basic: No armour, either long-sleeve, short-sleeve, or sleeveless tunic, and either pants or no pants
- Advanced: Add a basic or thin wooden breastplate
- Elite: Short- or long-sleeved tunic, optionally wear leather coat, painted or unpainted thin wooden breastplate
Bell bearer: same as illustration, mokusei katchū
Champion (two-handed) spearman and "swordsman"/axeman: same as illustrations, long-sleeved tunic, optional leather coat, black mokusei katchū or thin painted breastplate with shoulderpads, medium painted wooden shield
My proposed unit roster has not yet been revised to reflect the changes though, will do so at a future time. There's still the Yamatai illustrations and raiding spearmen at the first page of thread.
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For the basic militia, they can wear a basic wooden breastplate like the one on the lower left. Advanced can wear mokusei katchū, while the elite can wear the ones decorated with red paint. The long-sleeved soldiers can be the champions.
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First off, if a player’s chosen hero “dies” in a non-Herocide game: will that player have an opportunity to choose another hero in the pool, or he summons the same hero only for the rest of the game? My suggestions would make sense for the latter.
There’s not much difference between the perioikoi and Spartan pikemen in Total War: Rome II, in my honest opinion, except their shield colors. My point was addressing possible anachronisms, such as reformed Spartan phalangites in classical Greek period.
Maybe the same suggestion mentioned earlier would also apply to the Spartans: choose between a Greco-Persian/Pelopponesian War roster, or a Rise of Macedon/Hellenistic roster.
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Civ: Seleucids
in Delenda Est
Posted
A few suggestions: