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I think it's too hasty to say that Fanatics are OP and should be nerfed. I believe the adjustment made to them actually enriched the game and introduced a new strategy that forces all of us out of our comfort zones and encourages more creativity. As @chrstgtr mentioned earlier, I think what we’re seeing here is the typical panic from a player when a strategy they’ve perfected and repeated countless times is suddenly put at risk. I don’t feel the same way about champ cav, particularly Gauls and Seleucids, and I still believe it would be good to slightly adjust their stats or improve a unit that can serve as a counter to champ cavs. This doesn’t mean a nerf so strong that it renders a costly late-game unit useless — one for which a player clearly deserves to be rewarded — but in its current state it feels more like the endgame goal that everyone rushes to in order to decide the outcome of a match, and personally, I find that dynamic boring. A parallel reflection that comes to mind from this debate is that, in many multiplayer RTS games, a certain strategy often becomes the meta and seems unbeatable — and this leads other players to develop new strategies to counter it, which enriches the evolution of the game. There are many examples of this in 0 A.D., but I won’t go into detail to avoid making this too long. I believe the current dynamic in many multiplayer matches is to ‘play it safe’ — which basically means booming — and this stifles creativity and discourages players from trying new things out of fear of completely failing and being seen as weak players. What if u go play some multiplayer and see how it goes by yourself? No trolling intended here, but I find very difficult to achieve that players start sharing replays to make the point. Replays aren't even named, so it's a tedious job to identify them. And it's not very motivating to go through all that work just to show it to a singleplayer-focused player, since — at least with the current state of the game's AI — multiplayer and singleplayer feel like completely different games.

Buenos días: -Estamos casi terminando las facciones americanas, en breve comenzaremos con las africanas: Adena (EE.UU/Ohio) Anishinaabe (Canada) Swift Creek (EE.UU,Georgia) Pámpidos: (argentina) Guaraní (Paraguay) Disculpen las moelstias*

With fanas, I would say we are looking at a very strong unit, but not really "broken OP". "OP" gets thrown around a lot, but you have to remember that gauls are still pretty much the best eco civ. If you moved them over to carth for example, the balance would be very different. Lastly, I would say that since they are a specialty of the gauls, I think they deserve to be pretty strong. I'd sooner nerf the champ cav play for gauls than fanas.

To underline, the the CS, which cost 2000 in res, defeated the fana, which cost 1540 in res. The fana also cost more food, the slowest resource to gather, than the CS, so the 1540 vs 2000 res comparison understates how CS were fairly close in price and the below example shows it even more because that example has fana as more expensive. Moreover, the fana player had to build multiple temples, which cost adds extra cost and time, while the CS army was built those 20 units several minutes before the fana player even went p2. Consider that the CS player could easily push the fana player before this or get upgrades with those extra res cost and it is hard to imagine how anyone thinks fana are OP unless you let the fana player spam them or try to fight them with cav

This might just be me, but some level of interpolation would make animations look miles better

This replay isn't that great, but it might be better than nothing. Imo it shows rather that fanatics are expensive and hard to get than that they are op. Which they aren't. commands.txt

That's because we haven't 1vs1 today.

Every old version you play, you say the same thing. In 15 minutes, you'll announce that you're taking back everything you said before

Well, fanatics do lose against sufficient infantry. But that doesnt mean its not a very strong tactic. For one, as reza mentioned, the rushing player will often head for the food economy first, as women cant defend themselves very well. And for that use case, having more power in fewer units is very strong, as a larger force gets noticed sooner and suffers more from blocking each other/pathing issues. Also, while it is definitely defendable when you pull together some troops, you have to consider two problems: 1. When the fanatic rusher has massed about ~20 fanatics, they can take on any soldiers you put on any extra metal/stone or a small woodline. And given their speed, you cant really get your main force, thats working somewhere else, to help in time. 2. There are major economic implications in fighting with all your cs. Of course, he invested a lot of resources to make the fanatics aswell, but if you are chasing 20 fanatics with 40 cs and fight them for like, 30s, you already lost 40•30•0.75=900 wood just by not using them to gather. That being said, fanatic rushes are not as easy to pull off as reza implies. They are quite costly and its not as easy to micro as cav (since they are still slower). Its a strategy that needs a lot of investment and skill and has potentially massive reward. Such strategies are very good for a video game and the fanatics shouldnt be touched at all imho.

@Dakara you can stop arguing with a guy who has never played a lobby tg lmao. and it's not fanas that are op, it's THE CIV. THE GODdarn CIV ITSELF IS OP. THEY GOT THE BEST CHAMP CAV, BEST ECO, BEST HERO, MOST ECONOMIC CHAMP, SLINGERS! ONLY WAY TO SAY THEY'RE WORSE IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE BOLTS OR CATAS

you picked mercenary XD plus how you do with a civ of archer? i'm agree fanatic OP on situation, not all time . If you build wall, have a civ with good civ, didnt start spam cav in 4vs4, etc, etc etc etc plus we don't know why gauls has a extra tech of food. You know this kind of bonus don't make civilizations unique, it just makes them unbalanced.

@Player of 0ADwhy don’t you accept the challenge? I’m not defending Reza but if you accept the challenge it might show win or lose the need to rebalance or not. With CS and women just gather food and wood aslan do is send only fanatics and it doesn’t matter if they die because there will always be waves coming back over. Im sure this strategy may not work/win on 1v1 all the time but its going to be annoying on team games. This will also show there is no need of CS if a faction has this type of warrior not needing extra resources like metal. Since most of the players commenting here disagree with Reza would it hurt to rebalance fanatics requiring metal? Nevertheless in this game all entities should require metal from women to elite units to buildings. Literally how can they work without metal?

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Here:

I think it becomes very evident when someone sell one Resource to buy another, incurring clear and significant losses, only to later use the second Resource (which was purchased very inefficiently) to buy back the first one or other assets with exorbitant yield rates. As can be seen in the Cube screenshot from the first message in this thread. And one could say the same kind of technique was used here: So the question is: why would someone make such inefficient trades, only to quickly reverse them with the exact same trade in the opposite direction? So if my math is correct, what Arup did was: First Trade 2800 Food for 1462 Wood Secondly Trade 2000 Wood for 3940 Food So u can do the maths 3940 - 2800 = 1140 FOOD 2000 - 1462 = 538 Wood And in the end is like he trade 538 Wood for 1140 Food. Which is like get 211 Food for every 100 Wood

Thanks @ffm2 for noticing this. So I dug into this bug and this is actually due to a typo in vanilla, while ModernGUI have the correct identifier "barterEfficiency" instead of the misspelled "barterEfficency" found in vanilla summary. Edit: Nobody will makes a PR for a typo I guess so I've just overwritten the faulty function so its fixed anyways for ModernGUI.

I don't think this is a productive conversation. But apart from that your team percentages are the individual percentages summed up. I can't reproduce that bug in vanilla.

This is not how u balance units. Are you a dev? Its simple, fanas run fast, they run. They are not going to attack cs like what u tested. They target women on field for example. Or a small group of men which are mining etc. That totally will destroy enemy eco. Then at a critical moment the fana player send all soldiors and kill his opponent. And both are still in p2. Other problem is that u cant counter fanas with cavs. And its very hard to micro with cavs vs fanas because they run fast. As chris himself in his first post said, a group of fanas easily can kill lot of cavs! Which show how broken they are. Moreover why only gaul should have a super op anti cav unit? Because its favorite civ of chris he bonused it? Fanas already required metal in last alphas. Why they dont require it now?