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Lion.Kanzen

Faction : Numidians

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-Buenas , busque posibles símbolos de facción y creo que se podría usar los diseños de monedas ;

 

 

 

632007347_Jugurtha(monedaposiblesmbolo).png.752467e6c203fe6ebc99d87e73ff12f3.png(Como símbolo el elefante)

1627000861_leonmicipsa(posiblesmbolo).png.ac56a32a13db1d694b1461af57d92040.png(Un león rugiendo)1635480735_monedaconJubaprimero(posiblesmbolo).png.fbec201cb70b170f7935511ffaed619b.png(Otro elefante)1299876594_Monedasnmidas(posiblesmbolos).png.66fa1d4183de01e22b4181d76ac4341c.png

(Extenso catálogo donde escoger "Pero los caballos ya han sido muy usados para representarlos en otros juegos")

monedas.thumb.png.0e45982af720cb210df3300cd08455ee.png(un caballo al galope)38360135_Portadadelibroconmonedaconelefeanteposiblesmbolo.png.2a8abc81a9e870d2cfb85e6c92eb4161.png (La moneda de un elefante; libro francés sobre los númidas)-cuyo también podría aportar información si alguien sabe francés)

825710295_PortadalibroMassinissaconmoneda(posiblesmbolo).png.b35c53d9ea9264bda7fe45fd20d4676f.png(creo que aquí ¿se aprecia mejor el relieve del elefante?)

 

 

Fuentes ;

 

 https://www.ma-shops.com/artdesgents/item.php?id=15070  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(monedas númidas)

https://www.vcoins.com/fr/stores/lucernae/90/product/kings_of_numidia_juba_i_ae28_circa_6046_bc_zeus_ammonelephant_rare/531115/Default.aspx  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(moneda con Juba 1º con elefante)
http://www.identification-numismatique.com/t5067-piece-de-monnaie-numide -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Monedas númidas )
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces71142.html    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Micipsa y león )
 

 

 

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Sorry guys but I can no longer follow this discussion as Google Translate does not work any longer on these pages :(

Enjoy the Choice :)

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4 hours ago, Loki1950 said:

Sorry guys but I can no longer follow this discussion as Google Translate does not work any longer on these pages :(

Enjoy the Choice :)

What you need translate?

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Horse iconography is kind interesting later I will post that.

 

 

There are some french books

I can try translate something but is better from french speaker know if something is valuable.

@Stan`

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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Most of the text posted is in Spanish which was translatable by Google but has stopped working get a "try again" pop up in a endless loop is seems to get confused as there are several differing languages on each page which boils down to the fact that I can no longer follow anything though using copy/paste in a separate Google Translate page may work I have not tried that yet I'm a bit lazy like most humans.

Enjoy the Choice :)  

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I will traslate one by one the most important features.

@Loki1950

Quote

They were the indigenous people of the kingdom of Numidia. They had as their capital Cirta (the current Kef). Sedentary or semi-nomadic Berbers, the Numidians were divided into different tribes, those in the eastern part were the Masilians and those in the western part were the Masesilians.
The name "Numidae"  or numidian comes from the Greek word meaning "nomad". It seems that the Numidians spoke a Berber language. They had a great passion for horses and a reputation as horsemen; as such they served in the Carthaginian armies. Their religion was animistic and polytheistic.

https://erasdelmundo.foroactivo.com/t598-los-numidas from here. no great thing except that brief about Numidians.

Quote

The list covers the period just before the first Roman mission trained King Sifax's infantry, until the suppression of the Tactfarinas revolt.

 

 

150068.jpg

http://www.campaign-game-miniatures.0catch.com/corvusbelli_ants1.html

 

Miniatures... no great info.

Quote

Numidia
The Schilak or Tamazight were a nomadic tribe of the Camiat race who lived from Morocco to Libya. In Egypt they were known as Tehenu. Later the Greeks would call them Numidians and the Romans, like the rest of the extra-imperial peoples, barbarians, hence their Arab name of ber-reik.

Once the attack on Egypt failed, some Tehenu tribes (Tuaregs) went into Africa, reaching as far as the Niger. In the Tassili caves, located in the heart of the Sahara, Lothe discovered, shortly after the Second World War, numerous paintings testifying to his passage. They include very stylized figures of warriors, horses and two or four-wheeled chariots with one, two or three crew members. In L'Oued Lar'ar (Libya) there are 106 figures of two-wheeled chariots and only three of four wheels, as well as half a dozen horsemen, which gives an idea of the importance that the chariot had in this area, where its use was prolonged until the Christian era. Horses were eumetric descendants of the tarpan, and are still bred in Sudan, where they are known as Air or Iforas. In the West they reached the Upper Volta, where another breed known as cotocolí, identical to the Danubian sigynes, would be bred. Further south, the expansion of the Berber horse was stopped by the tsetse fly, hence the wheel would continue in solitary, for the benefit of pottery.

In the 5th century BC, the Greek historian Herodotus described the people of the Fezzan garamantes as sedentary farmers who used horse-drawn carts in their battles. This fact was verified in the 20th century thanks to a discovery of rock art in the Jabal Akakus in western Fezzan and in the Jabal al-Uwaynat near the border with Egypt.

During the Punic Wars, both the Carthaginians and later the Romans incorporated contingents of numbered horsemen into their armies. Generally they constituted the light cavalry, exploiting to the maximum the speed of their Berber horses, much superior to the Celts and Romans, in harassment missions.

King Yugurta tried to give his harkas of horsemen the appearance of a disciplined army, but he did not always succeed because of the indomitable character of the Berber warrior. During the war against Rome, his favorite tactic was to simulate a disorderly retreat, to catch his pursuers off guard on favorable ground. In the end the conflict was resolved in favour of Rome thanks to Sulla's use of a large contingent of Latin cavalry and numbered horsemen from Gauda, the grandson of the overthrown Masinisa.

Archivo:Caballería ligera númida.jpg
Numbered light cavalry

Archivo:Carga númida en Cannas (216 AC).jpg

Numbered load in Cannas

http://caballipedia.es/La_caballería_en_África (cavalry in Africa).

Quote

The Numidian tribes participated in the Second Punic War on both sides, both in the Carthaginian and the Roman, when Masinisa became allied with Scipio the African at the end of the war, which was fundamental to Hannibal's defeat at Zama. After the defeat of Carthage, the tribes were unified under the kingdom of Numidia, establishing a Hellenic organization, and annexing Carthaginian territory, under the approval of Rome.

These annexations, and the harassment by the Numidian kingdom to Carthage, led to the Third Punic War and the disappearance of Carthage as an independent state, which was annexed to Rome.

 

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Carthaginian Mercenaries: Soldiers of Fortune,Allied Conscripts, and Multi-Ethnic Armies in Antiquity

https://digitalcommons.wofford.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.ch/&httpsredir=1&article=1010&context=studentpubs

 

Chapter 22 : Carthage and Numidia, 201–149 BC ; in A Companion to the Punic Wars

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781444393712.ch22

 

Numidian Kings and Numidian Garrisons during the Second Punic War: Coins and History

https://www.raco.cat/index.php/Potestas/article/download/301105/390561

 

How monetarized was Numidian society in Antiquity?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/58811955/Maria_Cristina_Nicolau_Kormikiari.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3B filename%3DHow_monetarized_was_Numidian_society_in.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200120%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200120T195522Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=e37007445be39f4b82d91100909daefa763cc2e42aee232134762320f05b99c8

 

La relación de Cartago con los Mauri del África Occidental (Marruecos)

http://ojs.unica.it/index.php/caster/article/download/2478/2215

 

EL MUNDO INDÍGENA Y ROMA EN EL MARRUECOS ANTIGUO: LA RELIGIÓN DURANTE LOS PERÍODOS PRERROMANO Y ROMANO

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/16868190/http___hera.ugr.es_tesisugr_15472954.PDF?response-content-disposition=inline%3B filename%3DEl_mundo_indigena_y_Roma_en_el_Marruecos.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200120%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200120T200247Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=a34f5080c71b3083b33b760db710e63fc1129cf19d1931944218a271fd023e50

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Romans in open battle, but later resorted to raids and ambushes, often of mounted infantry operating from the mountains or of cavalry from the steppes or desert fringe. When facing Roman or Byzantine troops Berber guerrillas tried to ambush the enemy in terrain of their own chousing, preferably trapping them in a narrow place or attacking suddenly from all sides. The Berbers also knew enough to hold back some troops as a reserve or to take advantage of a success. Meanwhile their cavalry were organized into loose ‘squadrons’. One problem facing the Romans was, in fact, the sheer number of horses which these Berbers could raise — up to 100,000 per year according to one report. The Romans also regarded the Berbers as brave and mobile, but unreliable, lightly armed, lacking stamina and superstitious. Ef them- selves attacked, the Berbers retreated to mountain- tops, where they built wooden field defences. If

from Osprey book

https://www.amazon.es/Romes-Enemies-Desert-Frontier-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855321661

https://ospreypublishing.com/rome-039-s-enemies-5-pb

Spoiler

image.jpeg.331088e7ae2613e0bf94e90e87cfd5f4.jpeg

 

rushing civilization. they can raise an army fast but is more quantity than quality.

image.png.3f552e04ede25fa0bd9888fe871440cf.png

from National Museum Algiers. Al Sumaa.

image.png.6dc890889b4ea4f5f90741e672972375.png

Quote

Greek and Carthaginian influence is obvious in this man's arms and armour, though such well-equipped warriors were rare in North Africa. His helmet is probably of Carthaginian origin.

Quote

Berber shields seem to have been of leather, but whereas early Roman writers state that these were small and round, by the early medieval period many Berbers used very large rectangular leather shields known as lamt. Such shields may have originated in Ethiopia or Nilotic Sudan. In this case their spread across the length of the Sahara could be linked with the migration of the Lamtuna Berbers, ancestors of the Tuareg~the famous 'veiled men' of the Sahara. One ancient Berber warrior custom which survived into medieval times was that ofshaving part of the head before battle. Another Berber fashion was the wearing of soft goat-skin cloaks and long, flowing unbelted tunics; in Roman times these only reached the knees, but grew longer during the Muslim Middle Ages. The hooded cloak or humus, which is still characteristic of North Africa, might be based upon the Roman legionary's sagum cloak, but the traditionallitham or man's face veil seen until modern times owed nothing to Arab-Islamic, Roman or Carthaginian influence.

 

 

 

 

Resultado de imagen para national museum algiers

have insteresting architecture.

Tripolitana Museum Lybia.

Resultado de imagen para libyan relief tripolitania carved

Hellenistic Numidia.

Resultado de imagen para lamt shield numidian

Resultado de imagen para lamt shield numidian

nKZG1BV.jpg

 

Imagen relacionada

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/hellenistic-west/representing-hellenistic-numidia-in-africa-and-at-rome/778E23EC097AE752DAEA660F5B35BF0C

if some else have access to this.

 

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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Resultado de imagen para Carthaginian/numidian conical helmetResultado de imagen para numidian roman troops

Quote

Noshei-Romah Mashliyim (Numidian Infantry)

Quote

was found in a 2nd-century BC Numidian prince's grave at el-Soumaa. Although this example is Numidian, it is very like Assyrian and other eastern styles.

Helmets of Greek piloi (Pilos) type are represented on some stelae and coins, while the ‘triangular’-shaped helmets represented in other carvings probably refer to conical helmets of Assyrian typology, originally the most common in the army of Carthage. Only one original helmet of this type has been found, from the Numidian royal grave of El-Soumaa; although dated as 2nd century BC this helmet has a clear Puno-African origin, with typical ear-shaped decorations. Crested bronze helmets were often given to officers (SI, I, 401); and a distinctive helmet of Libyan-Punic type was ‘conspicuous for the horns that curved over his temples’ (SI, I, 415), a detail clearly linked with the cult of Baal-Hammon (SI, III, 10). Helmets of generals were surmounted by a wide crest, that of Hannibal having a scarlet plume with a long, flowing horsetail: ‘The plume that nodded on his head showed a deadly brightness, even as a comet terrifies fierce kings with its flaming tail and showers blood-red fire’ (SI, I, 460ff). From another passages of Silius Italicus (I, 501, 525) Hannibal seems to wear a helmet fitted with additional plumes, probably in imitation of that of Alexander the Great. The chapel of Carton at Salambo contained the ceramic statue of a god wearing a Greek-style armour. This statue probably represented Adad, perhaps the most warlike god of the Phoenician pantheon. Stelae from the sanctuary of Cirta, dating from the 2nd to the 1st century BC, show similar armours on trophies which are carved with much more precision than those from Carthage. A beautiful and precious armour was found in a Punic tomb at Ksour es-Saf in the Byzacena area. It consists of two heart-shaped bronze plates covering the chest and back. The decoration, which is identical on both, shows the helmeted head of the goddess Athena placed below two pectoral discs. This armour is not of local production but comes from a 3rd-century BC workshop in Campania, Italy. It was probably purchased or looted by one of Hannibal’s Libyan soldiers and taken back to Africa. The data from this grave, as illustrated in the recent studies by Fariselli, show that it belonged to a Libyan warrior rather than an Italic mercenary as might initially be supposed. That it was placed in the tomb shows that it was reverently associated with the dead warrior’s memory

Spoiler

A

 

ssyrian.

Resultado de imagen para assyrian helmet 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

UCjHGn7.png

The iron hetmet from El-
Soumaa, 2nd century BC, as
teconstructed from many
fragments: front and right-side
‘views, and complete front
silhouette; compare with Plate
1. Now in the museum at
Constantine, Algeria (ancient
Cirta), this helmet is estimated
to have been 25cm (98in} high
It is notable for its combination
of a conical shape typical of the
Near East, with embossed

ears, believed to have been a
North African characteristic.

http://www.worldhistory.biz/download567/ELI201.pdf

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image.png.ad0ac66022ff1367cd10cc26346920e4.pngimage.png.97ff78d1316d63837dd36bd519ef0fa3.png

Puno-African Helmet.

the ancestor of many easter conical was the urartu helmet.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/kirpichnikov_helmets/helmets.htm

Spoiler

Resultado de imagen para assyrian helmet  typology

russian helmets

you can found this conical typology is very ancient but still being a ancestor even of Russian helmets  even in late Middle age. so this practical design were very successful.

So isnt strange Punic as Carthaginian and Numidian have this design in common too.

Spoiler

Resultado de imagen para assyrian helmet  typologyImagen relacionada

probably Phoenician or even Lybian bring this to north Africa. 

with some characteristic of hellenism similar to Pylos helmet from Greece.

image.png.37b36129e25e0d5c9b56b37dfabb539b.png

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12 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

@Sundiata those patterns are North African or /and Berbers?

I think those patterns may be inspired by the patterns of Berber straw mats/carpets. Not a bad choice imo...  

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7 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

with some characteristic of hellenism similar to Pylos helmet from Greece.

image.png.37b36129e25e0d5c9b56b37dfabb539b.png

That's an agema helmet. It's currently used by the Seleucid IIRC.

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11 hours ago, Sundiata said:

I think those patterns may be inspired by the patterns of Berber straw mats/carpets. Not a bad choice imo...  

you have some evidence? can be nice for some else. many people can siscover the game finding this things. ;)

10 hours ago, Stan` said:

That's an agema helmet. It's currently used by the Seleucid IIRC.

Pylos typology.

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