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Alexandermb

===[TASK]=== Iberian Units Update

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Hi again, i made this topic to ask for 2D workers and historical investigators for references to start an update for the Iberian Faction Infantry/Cavalry, since their units are really outdated and all infantry looks almost the same.

References: 
Weapons used by iberians:

Spoiler

image.png.a2d72a55fd3f1ea30aa465cacba8e02c.pngimage.png.41963b255cf2a373b64d34084b7bf8f5.pngimage.png.a4a0a91508ceadcf5c7ad2b8f6bf1542.pngimage.png.2d2d237e3f1336abed9dce8d9f191ac3.pngimage.png.ec73c597690502049b05b0f35bf10675.png

Shields:

Spoiler

image.png.19306cb0e270e94694cae9de723023e5.pngimage.png.04c0000a3937a2efce57098d12db4a60.png


Javelinist/Heavy Swordsman

Spoiler

image.png.0ac69c9f8513afb6d6f0ef3a1dfd2962.png

Light Infantry - Basic Rank

Spoiler

image.png.1a5b03ae7b9b3dba87cab4b51f9c2b83.png

Scutari equipment:

Spoiler

image.png.1d2027007a5e9dc1ae2065f033e45e28.png

Scutari Formation:

Spoiler

image.png.11ca90fa21570444ed0d4145763d2eea.png

Infantry Spearman:

Spoiler

image.png.f265642c8a7c4ace2b689c1a53f675c8.pngimage.png.add336ed93bc5bc8ee307ab4328ba25a.png

Basic rank slingers:

Spoiler

image.png.1b7d29bb943926faa40e4f1392afe95a.png

Iberian Heavy Cavalry:

Spoiler

image.png.555da4bacf19bc8ea48682214fbd53e0.png

Iberian Chieftain:

Spoiler

image.png.590b656101cce4cd0ebdf1eab9dd8f14.png

Iberian Cavalry and Scutari:

Spoiler

image.png.4f135cb2928f69ce28a0ee92efa16f02.png

Various Infantry:

Spoiler

image.png.55e4536aad210ce38dcb9262b2d21e22.pngimage.png.a34d28deb9da4678ae59413b0ba46f99.png

Iberian Cavalry:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.8a56a7bba661a3ba68972c74a2bee8d3.pngimage.png

Religion:

Spoiler

image.png.d23ad18d0ce9eb737c70c52412383327.pngimage.png.4ece2a6fad0506209963fa61cb3575e8.pngimage.png.9e63fdff9a1ed03648f4f3457012986b.png

Source: https://arrecaballo.es/edad-antigua/el-caballo-en-la-peninsula-iberica/los-iberos/

Celt Iberian Cavalry:

Spoiler

image.png.5e288d9063fdfe639590249b214bc790.pngimage.png.cac337cfe113e214af6328b8f9da9d06.png

Celt Iberian infantry

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.ae13842debb412f308659f76ecc4b8f2.pngimage.thumb.png.e75d577d69a2778956be6b2cb5c1a2d9.pngimage.png.b4e8a8108cb8a63348ad93038c8ffb30.pngimage.thumb.png.5f831ceec4b892d628e046106f805e78.pngimage.png.c9d984da5a110462f93d29a00c7d5c9d.png

Source:https://arrecaballo.es/edad-antigua/el-caballo-en-la-peninsula-iberica/los-celtiberos/

 

Edited by Alexandermb
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And priest could potentially change with the references about religion.

Looking in atlas, Elite rank units don't have variants, they are the same armour with diff shield. Champ swordsman is a like a copy of Elite Swordsman with bigger shield.

Edited by Alexandermb
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Helmets some are already done in celitc helmets topic. Iberian only helmets must be done. Unit textures should be reworked at 100% for match the other factions visual update.

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Even in all of those references there is not much variation in the gear or fashion. The game already has representations of most of those unit textures. Though, like you said, they could definitely be updated for consistent quality! :) They could totally use more and new shield variants, textures and models.

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3.jpg

plantilla.jpg

 

VESTIMENTA+DE+LA+MUJER.+VESTIMENTA+DEL+HOMBRE..jpg

 

Vascones%2By%2Bel%2BReino%2BHispano-visigodo.jpg vascongadas vascones 

 

ASTUR-CELTIBEROS.jpg recon cantabro, vasco 

 

LEGIONES%2BROMANAS0004.jpg rome soldiers in zone of vasconia rainig.... 300 days at year 

circulo-cantabrico.jpg

cava tactic for reload and supplies javelins 

guerrero%2BCristiano%2Bsiglo%2BX.jpg

cav of cantabira, vasconian zone,( rain and cold zone)
 

Guerreros celtíberos celtiber troop
 

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image.png.008a3eeec64866b2bc8979cb657862e6.png

There are many references in" Arre caballo."

https://arrecaballo.es/edad-antigua/el-caballo-en-la-peninsula-iberica/los-iberos/

Scutari formation.

image.png.844cab99ee9853cb8adc88c0a0241831.png

Scutari variation  armor -text-

Falcata.

image.png.370bf406c9714219c0a8b3f1d6309dda.png

Spoiler

The Scutari infantry fought as heavy Iberian armor carrying scales or chainmail, helmet and a long oblong shield, similar to the Roman escutum of the times of the Republic. His main weapon was spear and as a secondary falcata, or gladius hispaniensis, possibly used in a type of phalanx training learned from when they acted as mercenaries.

Balearic slingers

Familia de honderos de Baleares. Las madres ponían el pan encima de un palo y no lo podían comerlo hasta que no atinaban, el padre viste a rayas según influencia púnica. Autor Carlos Fernández del Castillo

Spoiler

The Balearics wore three braided slings (of linen, esparto or even animal hair), one in the hand, another in the waist and another with the forehead. Each with different size to launch their projectiles at different distances. They also had a spear with a wooden tip hardened to the fire, being very rare that they had a metal tip. For their defense they wore only a goat skin tied to the left forearm. The projectiles could be stones or glandes of lead, consisting of biconical or bitroncoconic pieces made with a mold. Its size and weight are constant, around 4-5 cm. and 40-70 grams, although there were some of larger size and weight. In expert hands, as were those of these warriors, their projectiles could exceed in distance those of the best archers (between 200 and 300 meters), as well as their aim, they also had the advantage that these could not be seen in their trajectory. , making it impossible for the enemy to try to cover himself and the injuries caused by his impact were more dangerous than those of the arrows. However, training a good slinger took a lot of time, more than an archer, being taught in the Balearic Islands as children, it is said that mothers put bread on a stick and could not eat it until they smashed it with a sling. According to Licofrón de Calcis "... the mothers taught their youngest children, in fasting, the art of throwing; since none of them will taste the bread with the mouth if before, with precise stone, it does not hit a piece placed on a stick like target ... ".

 

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La conquista romana de Hispania

Imagen iber mercenarie, italo-corintian helmet

Imagen mercenaries ibers 
Balearic slinger highly coveted by ancient generals and armies for their accuracy and range with the sling which was second to none in the ancient world. They carried 3 slings of differing sizes for use at different ranges and for different size shot. They could even out range bows of the time. Legend has it that Balearic children weren't allowed to eat until they were able to strike their food which was placed at a distance.
IberianWarriors Johnny Shumate
 

Durante más de medio siglo, la Península mantuvo en jaque a los gobernadores y a los soldados que se enviaban desde Italia. La toma de Numancia fue el culmen de un enfrentamiento que tuvo que concluir el famoso Publio Cornelio Escipión Emiliano victory

Iberian cavalry during the Punic Wars. They were excellent cavalry and contributed to some of Carthage's greatest victories over Rome.

[research] iberians

imperial1518830762_war_182-06.jpg

imagen publicada por el usuario recon and soliferreum

imagen publicada por el usuario hit and run 

82f1fa0cceefdb033f7cf454841e8ead.jpg

Infante+celtibero+final.jpgmercenarie cartago

Hondero%2Bpompeyano..jpg mercenarie by Escipión el Africano

 

 

 

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The main issue is still the same, the current Iberian faction is mostly Iberians (speaking a non-indo-european language) with no contribution from Celtiberians (speaking a indo-european language). I know they are two tribal culture and that it is difficult to distinguish them but it is something that should be addressed in a short future. I see three possibilities:

  1. The current Iberians will stay 100% Iberians and will be the only faction of the Iberian peninsula.
  2. The current Iberians will stay 100% Iberians but a new faction will be added for another Iron Age culture of the Iberian peninsula.
  3. The current Iberians will include others cultures but it should be done in a smart way and clearly stated to not confuse people and to not making this faction a patch-work of very different cultures. Tribal and Iron Age cultures doesn't mean primitive and all "same-@#$%" cultures you can throw in the same box.

 

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In Catalan:

image.thumb.png.e6664779de86acd6c7053e2a42a2f21c.png

Celtiberian Numantia:

http://www.numanciamultimedia.com/en/chapter-4/Numantia-in-the-Celtiberian-Context/5

image.png.0436f7fe21090a3f78431addaf8d4655.png

image.thumb.png.1134ffb6fb9adf0b5b7cfd65331874b0.png

Iberian city of Ullastret (Indigetae tribe in Catalunya):

image.png.8fb87f01a00b0c54f777e23f58562ce9.png

Castro de Borneiro, Galicia.

image.thumb.png.519ec7bdff388ff52ae5092ae8ccfde7.png$

image.png.8780151cdbf9bdccb362ea0311134bab.png

Castro de Terroso, Lusitanian:

image.png.665de90f03b18208e50fd104d89726a3.png

image.png.81853084e1766061d508ec11f0e8addd.png

Castro de Navarre.

image.png.217af04bcfac53aabbd30f9f905cc08f.png

image.png.c45baa926ac05f2f5a9dd27e1526ac4f.png

image.png.98b2bdff81c2bb71c26428e78ea550df.png

Castro de Arrola, Pais Vasco.

image.png.cf3d75d7eac2521fb155ebb66d4b6e82.png

image.png.d5e6734529135940d536497ef42d2f27.png

image.png.417e94ffe422bba50c4f9e44e0a7293d.png

Castro de Bolunburu:

image.png.85e443a34f88fc5238380a7f782677f7.png

image.png.27a46939a95531312f193eae2f3c1fe2.png

 

Edited by Genava55
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43 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

We can split them into  2 faction at last? 

Yes, the Celtiberians are the best candidate and since there is a huge coalition against Rome during the Second Celtiberian War, it is possible to include the Lusitanian and the Vettones in the late game roster.

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@Lion.Kanzen I forgot to mention that the main issue for the moment about the current Iberian faction is that it is mostly based on the iberian culture but two of the heroes of the faction are not iberian... Caros is a Celtiberian chieftain leading the coalition during the second war, Viriato is Viriathus a famous Lusitanian war leader... Maybe Orison and Korbis are good candidates for the Iberians. Korbis is a king that won a duel against Orsua to rule the city of Ibis (not located today). Orison is a Oretani king that tried to resist against Carthage.

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Quote

need more info for this leader

Diodorus Siculus XXV: The king of the Orissi/Oretani, however, came to the aid of the beleaguered city, and by a feigned offer of friendship and alliance succeeded in routing Hamilcar. In the course of his flight Hamilcar contrived to save the lives of his sons and his friends by turning aside on another road; overtaken by the king, he plunged on horseback into a large river and perished in the flood under his steed, but his sons Hannibal and Hasdrubal made their way safely to Acra Leucê.

Strabo, geography 3.3.2: Of those who dwell above the aforesaid mountains, the Oretani are the most southern, extending in part as far as the sea-coast on this side the Pillars. Next these towards the north are the Carpetani, then the Vettones and Vaccæi, through whose [country] the Douro flows as it passes Acontia, a city of the Vaccæi. The Gallicians are the last, and inhabit for the most part a mountainous country: on this account they were the most difficult to subdue, and furnished his surname to the conqueror of the Lusitanians; in fact, at the present day the greater part of the Lusitanians are beginning to call themselves Gallicians. The finest cities of Oretania are Castulo and Oria.

For the other infos, it should come maybe from Cornelius Nepos and Appian, Iberike. But they are hard to find in english online. Moreover the st*pid guy that wrote the wikipedia page didn't put the original references.

Edit: like always, the Roman historiography is full of legends, moral judgments and distortions of the truth for political reasons. It is hard to know which version of the Oretani's king is true.

Edited by Genava55
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