Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

@real_tabasco_sauce

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27168

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

5 hours ago, alre said:

I'm in for doing some testing. I especially like the territory mod inclusion.

by the way, I must warn those here who don't frequent the lobby, that the comnunity mod has actually split the community. as a rule of thumb, those above 1400 use the mod, those below don't.

It is worth considering that it is easy to download and that the community was already somewhat split by those skill levels anyway. It would be nice to add some kind of news rundown in the lobby that advertises some recent changes in the mod, @guerringuerrin was manually doing this by hosting a game with such a title, but I think one made automatically in the lobby chat would be great.

[chrstgtr]

6 hours ago, alre said:

I'm in for doing some testing. I especially like the territory mod inclusion.

by the way, I must warn those here who don't frequent the lobby, that the comnunity mod has actually split the community. as a rule of thumb, those above 1400 use the mod, those below don't.

I agree. It’s a problem. But it’s “necessary” this alpha because of the Han farm upgrade issue. I don’t expect this to exist going forward. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

9 hours ago, alre said:

I'm in for doing some testing. I especially like the territory mod inclusion.

by the way, I must warn those here who don't frequent the lobby, that the comnunity mod has actually split the community. as a rule of thumb, those above 1400 use the mod, those below don't.

I agree. It’s a problem. But it’s “necessary” this alpha because of the Han farm upgrade issue. I don’t expect this to exist going forward. 

Id say a part of it is that better/more frequently active players are more interested in the balance changes/new content offered in the mod, whereas the majority of players are happy to play whatever they currently do and don't bother installing.

[chrstgtr]

9 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Id say a part of it is that better/more frequently active players are more interested in the balance changes/new content offered in the mod, whereas the majority of players are happy to play whatever they currently do and don't bother installing.

Yeah, but there are no changes right now. It’s just the Han food upgrades, which are necessary to play Han. 
 

All players should be using the current mod. But less experienced/involved players probably don’t know a problem exists with vanilla 

[Philip the Swaggerless]

I just voted.  Because some of the merge requests are "package deals" I had to say no to some that had some things I liked.

[Stan`]

8 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I just voted.  Because some of the merge requests are "package deals" I had to say no to some that had some things I liked.

Can you specify?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Just curious, what are some reasons to vote against the ram speed/accel changes?

[wraitii]

21 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I just voted.  Because some of the merge requests are "package deals" I had to say no to some that had some things I liked.

You should specify that on the merge requests as comments then, maybe we can clean them out

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

The voting turnout so far has been nice to see! I am pretty excited to try out these new changes when they come out.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

4 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Just curious, what are some reasons to vote against the ram speed/accel changes?

I don't think infantry should have difficulty chasing them down.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

14 hours ago, Stan` said:

Can you specify?

For the Team Bonuses package, I liked the Athens and Seleucids changes, but Persia and Carth both seemed pretty meh to me.

Actually that was the only one.  I thought the proposed Ptol hero change was different, so my NO vote on that one is not conflicted.

[chrstgtr]

2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

The voting turnout so far has been nice to see! I am pretty excited to try out these new changes when they come out.

Where can we vote?

[andy5995]

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

Where can we vote?

At the top of that thread.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

8 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I don't think infantry should have difficulty chasing them down.

was this an issue in a25?

I think the main issue with ram acceleration is when they go through or around corners, and it is usually impossible to get the ram to avoid big turns. 

[chrstgtr]

Isn't the axe cav buff just making axe cav equal to sword cav but with more crush damage? I don't think that is a very good differentiator. They should be unique. I think the glass canon idea much more. 

[Philip the Swaggerless]

5 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

Isn't the axe cav buff just making axe cav equal to sword cav but with more crush damage? I don't think that is a very good differentiator. They should be unique. I think the glass canon idea much more. 

The only change was to attack, so they still have less armor than other melee cavalry: 3 hack, 2 pierce.  IIRC sword cav have 3 hack 4 pierce and spear cav have 4 hack 3 pierce.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

9 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

Isn't the axe cav buff just making axe cav equal to sword cav but with more crush damage? I don't think that is a very good differentiator. They should be unique. I think the glass canon idea much more. 

yes, they are already glass lol, just not yet a cannon.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

So far, I'm seeing that we should probably not add the rams and the iphicrates/ptol nerf. I'm thinking we should still wait a while longer so more can vote.

Is sentiment around the second one that the ptol hero should not be nerfed, but that iphicrates could use a nerf?

Maybe the appropriate change then is to instead merge just the iphicrates portion.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

 

20 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

So far, I'm seeing that we should probably not add the rams and the iphicrates/ptol nerf. I'm thinking we should still wait a while longer so more can vote.

Is sentiment around the second one that the ptol hero should not be nerfed, but that iphicrates could use a nerf?

Maybe the appropriate change then is to instead merge just the iphicrates portion.

Iphicrates is a sitting duck.  He can't hide behind the slingers and boost everyone like all the other heroes he has to stay in javelin attack range or the army doesn't get any benefit.  The moment you direct him independently (to flee, for example) the whole army loses the benefit unlike all other heroes.  His formation aura needs to be stronger than other auras where the heroes can hide behind the entire army.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Ok that is fair, honestly I wouldn't say iphicrates is all that OP currently. His strength certainly comes at some limitations like you said. So as far as the vote goes, that merge request seems fairly conflicted, with plenty of outright disagreement, and plenty of 'skip/no option' which is likely partial disagreement.

Edited October 25, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

2 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Is sentiment around the second one that the ptol hero should not be nerfed, but that iphicrates could use a nerf?

 

for me, yes. I would also like iphicrates to be an area aura but that might be outside scope. 

[LetswaveaBook]

3 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Is sentiment around the second one that the ptol hero should not be nerfed, but that iphicrates could use a nerf?

Maybe my judgement isn't worth anything since I hardly played A26, but in my opinion an iphicrates nerf would only be justified if they received something else in return to help to characterize them.

Personally I think it is modern bias to assume that "democracy" is something that made Athens a more advanced society. So I would favour some other suggestions.

What I consider a problem for especially hoplite factions is this: melee units are of less importance than ranged infantry.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

9 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

Maybe my judgement isn't worth anything since I hardly played A26, but in my opinion an iphicrates nerf would only be justified if they received something else in return to help to characterize them.

Personally I think it is modern bias to assume that "democracy" is something that made Athens a more advanced society. So I would favour some other suggestions.

What I consider a problem for especially hoplite factions is this: melee units are of less importance than ranged infantry.

Sniping has become more important and if more and more players use this (they want to win battles right?), then melee units' damage will become more important because they won't necessarily be the first units to die.

Personally I think it would be a shame to oppose the Athens team bonus due to its historical justification, of course another justification can be found later if the current one is deemed improper. 

I am very excited to consider more than just 4-5 team bonuses when selecting civs in a TG.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

10 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

Personally I think it is modern bias to assume that "democracy" is something that made Athens a more advanced society. So I would favour some other suggestions.

Well, admittedly I don't know how much impact athenian democracy really had. It is beneficial in theory to policymaking and development (technologies), and it is conceivable as a team bonus.