Fixing Chinese Han

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 04/02/2023 at 9:32 PM, d34d svn said:

Stick to the current timeframe! Do not deviate from it! 

I prefer the team stay focus on Western Han era instead of Eastern Han/Three Kingdoms era.

we can have both.

[d34d svn]

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

we can have both.

But first please focus on Western Han's in 0AD EA, then you may start working at Eastern Han.

[sternstaub]

On 05/02/2023 at 6:36 PM, LienRag said:

A remark : wouldn't it be possible to have the rice paddy buildable only near a water source

I think that "water source" is not a concept in 0ad; water is determined by terrain height.

[Stan`]

7 hours ago, sternstaub said:

think that "water source" is not a concept in 0ad; water is determined by terrain height.

No by passability classes.

[Yekaterina]

On 05/02/2023 at 5:36 PM, LienRag said:

A remark : wouldn't it be possible to have the rice paddy buildable only near a water source (or another rice paddy with access to a water source) and have millet fields with lower production value buildable where irrigation isn't available

*sad Mainland noises*

Most big 4v4 team games are played on Mainland and this will cause some problems since that map has no water. What you can do instead is offer 2 types of fields: paddy and "other grains". Paddy needs water but "other grains" are just normal yellow fields with 5 farmers like those of all other civs.  A funny alternative is to add a structure "well with pump", which pumps water from underground to your paddies, and you have to build a well before building paddies. This might make the game more realistic but hardcore players in team games (SaidRdz) probably won't fancy this...

[Yekaterina]

We do know more about East Han than west Han so it's probably easier to implement. Both are around 0 AD, but west Han started in around 200BC and East Han ended in around 300AD

Sad, it was a glorious empire

Not sure about mercenary uses in Han dynasty but we can definitely go from a javelin unit.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, Helicity said:

*sad Mainland noises*

Most big 4v4 team games are played on Mainland and this will cause some problems since that map has no water. What you can do instead is offer 2 types of fields: paddy and "other grains". Paddy needs water but "other grains" are just normal yellow fields with 5 farmers like those of all other civs.  A funny alternative is to add a structure "well with pump", which pumps water from underground to your paddies, and you have to build a well before building paddies. This might make the game more realistic but hardcore players in team games (SaidRdz) probably won't fancy this...

sounds interesting for an asian map.

[LienRag]

On 15/02/2023 at 11:38 AM, Helicity said:

offer 2 types of fields: paddy and "other grains".

That is exactly my proposal, yes (just that instead of "other grains" I wrote "millet").

 

Well pumps are not how rice paddies are produced (rice needs to much water for that) and more importantly, I'm not sure that they'll be fun rather than very micromanagy.

If the problem is for mainland maps, is it difficult to add a few small ponds on them ? Maybe even one on each starting location, at the edge of the initial territory ?

[AIEND]

29 minutes ago, LienRag said:

这正是我的建议，是的（只是我写了“小米”而不是“其他谷物”）。

 

水泵不是稻田的生产方式（水稻需要大量的水）而且更重要的是，我不确定它们会很有趣而不是非常微观管理。

如果是大陆地图的问题，在上面加几个小池塘难不难？ 甚至可能在每个起始位置，在初始区域的边缘都有一个？

There is no need to have two types of farmland in the Han Dynasty. The biggest problem at present is that compared to China, which grows wheat, rice and millet at the same time, India was almost entirely rice-based at that time, but India did not have rice fields. We should first It is right to give the rice fields to India.

[LienRag]

On 16/01/2023 at 3:51 PM, borg- said:

The longbow has advantages against the crossbow in several aspects, greater range, greater impact, shorter firing time, the only advantage of the crossbow is that anyone with mediocre training could be able to deal some damage,

Greater range, really ? I'm in no way specialist of the Han dynasty of the period, but that's not generally how crossbows work.

They do indeed have longer reload and may have less impact that longbow, but they're known for having longer range. Even Aiend agreed with that.

Also, if the problem with making Crossbowmen too cheap is that it makes them economically OP, it' always possible to make them less efficient at economic tasks (like Skiritois). Would need a reason to justify that, though.

 

[LienRag]

1 hour ago, AIEND said:

There is no need to have two types of farmland in the Han Dynasty.

Well, if (as I suggested) we require a source of irrigation for rice paddies, it's not possible to not provide the civilization using them with another source of fields when water isn't available.

[AIEND]

4 分钟前，LienRag 说：

范围更大，真的吗？ 我绝不是那个时期汉代的专家，但弩通常不是这样工作的。

In the Han Dynasty, there were crossbows with a range similar to that of bows, and crossbows with a range far beyond that of bows, so it cannot be generalized.

 

6 分钟前，LienRag 说：

好吧，如果（正如我建议的那样）我们需要稻田的灌溉来源，那么在没有水的情况下，不可能不为使用它们的文明提供另一种田地来源。

I don’t think it’s necessary to think too complicated, because wheat fields and millet fields also need to be irrigated with water, but agricultural irrigation cannot be represented in the game, so I don’t think we need to be too entangled in the water supply of rice fields.

[Palaiologos]

4 hours ago, LienRag said:

Greater range, really ? I'm in no way specialist of the Han dynasty of the period, but that's not generally how crossbows work.

They do indeed have longer reload and may have less impact that longbow, but they're known for having longer range. Even Aiend agreed with that.

Also, if the problem with making Crossbowmen too cheap is that it makes them economically OP, it' always possible to make them less efficient at economic tasks (like Skiritois). Would need a reason to justify that, though.

 

https://historum.com/t/han-dynasty-crossbow-iii.179336/

"What may surprise many readers is how a reduced 285 lb Han crossbow shoot at the same level of power as a Medieval 1200 lb composite crossbow? And how could a 150 lb longbow shoot at the same level of power as a Medieval 1200 lb steel crossbow? This can be explained by powerstroke."

Seems they had "short" reload time and dealt much more "impact".
Can agree with everything else stated.