Rant: randomly banned from the lobby

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:00 PM, smiley said:

The smurf rule is actually dumb, so I agree with you on that. Preventing new accounts is an overstep. There is no reason for forcing people players into the same identity. I literally quit the whole game after being banned several times even though the identity was not even a mystery. Which also resulted in me deleting a forum account and also causing irreparable damage with relations here. So, you know, pick your poison I guess. Either don't smurf or don't play.

Expand  

Personally I understand you, I myself made more than one account on the forum.

 

Other times I do Ostrasism to avoid debates, controversies and to lower the discomfort.

[Yekaterina]

@Stan` @user1 @Lion.Kanzen @smiley @Dizaka  I have an OP idea that will lead us out of this argument:

Each account gets 2 names: a 'player name' and a 'fixed name'. Similar to most social media.

The 'player name' can be changed to whatever they want - so no need to create new accounts just because they are bored with their old nickname

The 'fixed name' can only be set once, when the account was being created. So, you can still easily identify who is who. Obviously people won't use their real life names but it is an effective way to reduce smurfs. 

 

This is my instagram account, just to illustrate the idea:

The fixed name in this case is yekaterina2.71828, and the nickname (player name) is Kate, which I can change. 

 

Ratings don't change, of course. 

Sometimes people just want to get a funny nickname  for a bit then change it, and I don't see an issue with this. For example, if you want to play ptols then you can name yourself Ptololo, then the next game you want to try Macedon and you call yourself Macedonians.

 

 

[Yekaterina]

@Player of 0AD I know you hate smurfs the most. Tell me, what do you think about this proposal? Just change the nickname but the fixed name stays constant so you still know who I am and my skill level, meanwhile I can enjoy the fun of funny nicks. So I think this is a good middleground compromise for the two types of people. 

Think: you can join mumble servers with whatever weird name you want... so why not 0ad?

 

 

[Silier]

  On 25/01/2022 at 8:21 PM, Yekaterina said:

Someone just turning up with a different name, then talks politely and is honest about their skills

Expand  

If one is honest with skill while balancing teams and has well-known account, why to hide it in a first place. After some time players will notice player on certain account is good unless they don't play to their best skills on purpose but then they are not honest about their skill in the first place.

  On 25/01/2022 at 1:39 PM, Yekaterina said:

No matter who I am in real life, it doesn't matter in the 0ad lobby

Expand  

It doesn't. No one knows it even with one account.

 

  On 25/01/2022 at 1:11 PM, Yekaterina said:

Frankly, I don't understand why this game bans people for creating another account

Expand  

If someone's account is banned for breaking TOS, by this rule all their access is restricted. But one can't trust anyone because people lie, when they can.

 

  On 25/01/2022 at 1:11 PM, Yekaterina said:

• The TG host asks them for rating or maybe previous name. If they are honest about skill level and didn't mess up balance then fine, let them play. It doesn't matter whether their real identity is hamdich or kate or feldfeld (all 3 could be the same person ), as long as they bring fun to your TG, we are all chill. 
• If the player lies about rating then trolls or smurfs with malicious intent of messing up TGs, then we can report them to User1 and give them an IP ban

Expand  

If there is one account per person, this is not needed because good players would be recognised automatically. Or by gained rating or just by their name.

 

So let's say one wants to play on lower level and will play the way the balancing will not be broken even if one can play better. Are 2 accounts per person enough? Supposing one keeps their playstyle on lower level one would not be discovered as smurfer so there is no need to have more than 2 accounts for that purpose.

If one can't do it they will create more and more accounts because others notice they are good player?

  On 25/01/2022 at 8:21 PM, Yekaterina said:

Changing your 0ad username is like changing your appearance, which means nothing to everyone else. Do you really care about the DNA of the dude behind the screen?

Expand  

If you change your appearance people still recognise you when they meat you or talk with you, unless you do the drastic change and change also your voice and name.

In lobby, username is everything others have to recognise you as a player. No one cares who sits there irl.

Yes, changing username could be an option that for now is not possible like changing the password. Lets suppose it is allowed to change the username. Lets imagine player A changes username to Y and some malicious user B changes username to A and tries to destroy reputation of that player. That's currently not possible unless someone knows password of the player A. So here is example why changing username can be dangerous feature.

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:52 PM, Yekaterina said:

@Stan` @user1 @Lion.Kanzen @smiley @Dizaka  I have an OP idea that will lead us out of this argument:

Each account gets 2 names: a 'player name' and a 'fixed name'. Similar to most social media.

The 'player name' can be changed to whatever they want - so no need to create new accounts just because they are bored with their old nickname

The 'fixed name' can only be set once, when the account was being created. So, you can still easily identify who is who. Obviously people won't use their real life names but it is an effective way to reduce smurfs. 

 

This is my instagram account, just to illustrate the idea:

The fixed name in this case is yekaterina2.71828, and the nickname (player name) is Kate, which I can change. 

 

Ratings don't change, of course. 

Sometimes people just want to get a funny nickname  for a bit then change it, and I don't see an issue with this. For example, if you want to play ptols then you can name yourself Ptololo, then the next game you want to try Macedon and you call yourself Macedonians.

 

 

Expand  

That's why I suggest a token ID.

 

I have participated in the most toxic Spanish-speaking forums.

 

In several are anonymous in others with user.

 

When there is harassment what I did was to make multi-accounts.

 

I even once pretended to be Brony.

 

The cyberbullying is wrong but it is more an issue of society, than control.

 

 

As there is harassment, the culture of cancellation and deplorable behaviors.

 

The best thing is to try to be anonymous. And facilitate those tools instead of starting to censor everything.

 

If not see the cases of Xbox and AOE censorship.

 

They couldn't even play anymore.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Lion.Kanzen

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:59 PM, Silier said:

If one is honest with skill while balancing teams and has well-known account, why to hide it in a first place

Expand  

I am not trying to hide anything all I want is a new nickname! Yekaterina is not even my real name nor did I invent the name myself, and I've had enough of it!

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:59 PM, Silier said:

Yes, changing username could be an option that for now is not possible like changing the password. Lets suppose it is allowed to change the username. Lets imagine player A changes username to Y and some malicious user B changes username to A and tries to destroy reputation of that player. That's currently not possible unless someone knows password of the player A. So here is example why changing username can be dangerous feature.

Expand  

Maybe we can disallow changing your nickname to already taken options. If someone choses to be Kate then there can't be a second Kate. But Kate- is allowed and u can see that it's not the same person (otherwise why add a - after your name)

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:02 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

That's why I suggest a token ID.

Expand  

Very good idea indeed. PUBG and Discord does this

 

[Silier]

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:04 PM, Yekaterina said:

I am not trying to hide anything all I want is a new nickname! Yekaterina is not even my real name nor did I invent the name myself, and I've had enough of it!

Expand  

I didn't say you do. I was reacting to the statement I quoted.
 

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:04 PM, Yekaterina said:

Maybe we can disallow changing your nickname to already taken options. If someone choses to be Kate then there can't be a second Kate. But Kate- is allowed and u can see that it's not the same person (otherwise why add a - after your name)

Expand  

You missed my point. A->X means A is available so B->A is valid from system point, unless obsolent database will be kept with all previous names.

[Silier]

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:10 PM, Yekaterina said:

Very good idea indeed. PUBG and Discord does this

Expand  

Technically we need just another column in database for displayname and keep current username as "id". And of course a lot of new code so someone who will write it.

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 2:58 PM, MarcusAureliu#s said:

For example in Yekaterinas case, you could just see  replays, of them playing 1v1, or TGs ( one was uploaded to yt even) to have prove that two players are involved.

Expand  

Yes. And certain people try to prove we are the same person xD. There was 1 guy who proved that I am hamdich and I cound't argue against him xD

  On 26/01/2022 at 2:58 PM, MarcusAureliu#s said:

anonymity for maybe being molested with their original account people could explain their situation aswell.

Expand  

Totally agreed

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:14 PM, Silier said:

Technically we need just another column in database for displayname and keep current username as "id". And of course a lot of new code so someone who will write it.

Expand  

This will always be the case.

Many of my ideas require someone to write code and half an art department

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:11 PM, Silier said:

obsolent database will be kept with all previous names.

Expand  

That is exactly what I am talking about. Considering the player base of 0ad and each character takes up 1 byte only, I think it is affordable...

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:14 PM, Silier said:

who will write it.

Expand  

Please teach me!! I am willing to do it but now sure how!

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 7:17 PM, Yekaterina said:

 

Please teach me!! I am willing to do it but now sure how!

Expand  

I have always liked that determined spirit.

 

That's what it is to be a volunteer.

[alre]

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:59 PM, Silier said:

If one is honest with skill while balancing teams and has well-known account, why to hide it in a first place.

Expand  

people does that. some players use multiple accounts for whatever reason, without even hiding it. some other try to hide who they are, but are honest about their level.

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 8:10 PM, alre said:

people does that. some players use multiple accounts for whatever reason, without even hiding it. some other try to hide who they are, but are honest about their level.

Expand  

The only 2 reasons why I want to use another account:

1. cool name

2. not get double rushed

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 8:52 PM, Yekaterina said:

The only 2 reasons why I want to use another account:

1. cool name

2. not get double rushed

Expand  

avoid being targeted ...because reputation?

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 8:59 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

avoid being targeted ...because reputation?

Expand  

Yes... some people in the lobby has been saying: 'just rush her and you will win' 

There is some element of truth in that, but, I can defend against a single rush like everyone else, but I can't stand a double rush or triple rush! I don't think you can, neither! Also in 1v1s if I get no hunt then I am quite dead, because any non-cosmic player would go all in on cav and rush me. Now, quite a few players have suicided to me this way, but others who got more hunt than me could beat me with camels. You can't really defend against javelin cavs or camels unless you have your own cav, but no hunt = no cav

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Yekaterina

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 9:07 PM, Yekaterina said:

Yes... some people in the lobby has been saying: 'just rush her and you will win' 

There is some element of truth in that, but, I can defend against a single rush like everyone else, but I can't stand a double rush or triple rush! I don't think you can, neither! Also in 1v1s if I get no hunt then I am quite dead, because any non-cosmic player would go all in on cav and rush me. Now, quite a few players have suicided to me this way, but others who got more hunt than me could beat me with camels. You can't really defend against javelin cavs or camels unless you have your own cav, but no hunt = no cav

 

Expand  

You have given me another idea. In multiplayer mode team vs team, add a mode where you don't know who you're playing with at the beginning of the game.

[Yekaterina]

  On 26/01/2022 at 9:25 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

add a mode where you don't know who you're playing with at the beginning of the game.

Expand  

It's very easy to figure out given the group chat, location ping etc

Also people talk to each other on discord (which has an outage right now, but they use mumble instead)

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 26/01/2022 at 9:53 PM, Yekaterina said:

It's very easy to figure out given the group chat, location ping etc

Also people talk to each other on discord (which has an outage right now, but they use mumble instead)

Expand  

it is true sometimes forgot that people do not play fair.

[Stan`]

As far as I know the XMPP protocol allows changing nickname while keeping the same jid. I suppose the game C++ makes some assumptions though. Maybe @user1 and @Dunedan might know more.

[smiley]

You can /nick in the lobby. The command isn't available in the chat of course, but you can open the console and run `Engine.LobbySetNick("new_name")` which would change the nickname.

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:59 PM, Silier said:

That's currently not possible unless someone knows password of the player A. So here is example why changing username can be dangerous feature.

Expand  

You can nick to the same name with an invisible character added and you could impersonate someone while they are on the same chat. I have seen this happen on the lobby, so its very much possible.

Regardless, since JIDs are not displayed, only nicks are, and since XMPP doesn't consider nicks identifiable, its a builtin feature of the lobby to be able to impersonate people. Its entirely possible to nick to the exact same name of someone offline.

Edited January 27, 2022 by smiley

[Stan`]

@Silier feel like making a patch for Engine.Lobby.SetNick with a regex or something to prevent using more chars than the inscription window?

[smiley]

In the context mentioned, it was a non 0ad XMPP client. I think the only solution is to use the identifier part of the JID. But as I recall, the lobby now uses anonymous JIDs.

[Player of 0AD]

  On 26/01/2022 at 6:58 PM, Yekaterina said:

@Player of 0AD I know you hate smurfs the most. Tell me, what do you think about this proposal? Just change the nickname but the fixed name stays constant so you still know who I am and my skill level, meanwhile I can enjoy the fun of funny nicks. So I think this is a good middleground compromise for the two types of people. 

 

 

 

Expand  

The custom rating mod already covers this