A25 Civ ranking

[Yekaterina]

This article aims to help beginners to choose a civ to play with. For experienced players, they should ignore this as any civ could be OP if played with the correct strategies. I am open to suggestions, as this is only my initial opinion after playing a few matches. 

Criteria for strong civ:

1. Good eco bonus and fast booming. Civs with small 5 pop houses are favored. 

2. Able to field strong citizen-soldier infantry combinations (javelin + pikemen are the strongest)

3. Diverse citizen cavalry and champion cavalry

4. Elephants and diverse siege for different scenarios

5. Team bonus

6. Naval superiority

7. Heroes

 

OP tier: Spartans, Seleucids, Iberians, Ptolemies

Strong tier: Macedonians, Gauls, Romans, Persians

Mediocre tier: Britons, Mauryans, Carthaginians

Not recommended: Kushites, Athenians

 

Explanations for each civ:

Spartans: strongest infantry in the game, Skiritai commandos, hoplite techs and bonuses. Also able to use cavalry javelineer and cavalry spearman. Not very complicated structure tree so very suitable for new players. However, their navy is weak.

Seleucids: Able to field javelins + pikes or spears and swords, very diverse cavalry (including  archer cav and 2 champion cav). A choice between champion pikes and champion swords; parade of Daphne tech, Agryaspides pikes tech. Asian elephants + Seleucus Nikator hero, Antiochus G'Megas + cavalry. Has access to heavy warships (Quinqueremes).

Iberians: OP defensive wall + strong buildings =  no need to fear rushes. Has a special upgrade for swords unit; monument increases attack by 20% = easily win battles. OP champion fire cavalry. Can troll enemy with fire ships and has strong Celtic warships. 5 house civ, but booms slightly slower and not so varied siege.

Ptolemies: OP eco and OP boom due to cheaper 5 pop houses + slingers. Has pikes from the beginning - resistant to cav rush. Has all siege in late game, elephants and library. Cleopatra and Ptolemaios H'Philopator are OP heroes; slinger + pikes or camel raid are very OP in the presence of these heroes. OP navy as well

Both Ptolemies and Seleucids have military colony, which is useful for small expansions.

 

Macedonians: able to field javelins and pikes by default (strongest combination of units). Starts with spear cav - better hat hunting deers and defending against cav rush. All siege available + demetrius hero. Can also use surprise your enemy with champion cavlary raid with Philip or capture enemy cc with Alexandros. Problems: weak navy + slightly slower boom.

Gauls: Useful farming techs, 5 pop house, Vercingetorix hero OP, strong cav and decent infantry. Fast boom, allows barrack spam if you have enough wood. Strong Celtic warships. Weakness: only rams.

Romans: Sword cav champion + Marcus Maximus hero raid; has javelineers, swords and spears - able to handle invasions; wide selection of siege; military camps allows sneaky attacks and denying the enemy's eco / territory. No need for new CCs, just spam entrenched camps. Scipion Africanus also OP hero and their navy is also strong. 

Persians: archers + javelineers + spearman = headache for any enemy. Has every single cav and 2 champion cavs. Kurush hero OP. Has Asian elephants and pop bonus. Problem: weak in P1 because only archers and spear at that point. 

 

Britons: Similar to Gauls, can do wardog rush. Problem: starts with slingers and spears instead of javelineers. No Gaul cav bonus or field bonus. Heroes are not as OP as the Gauls. 

Mauryans: worker elephant - can thrive in difficult biomes / maps.  Has steel swords upgrade and sword cav, as well as Asian elephants. However, it is a little bit difficult to play for beginners. Their heroes are not as impressive as some other civs. 

Carthaginians: Absolutely OP navy and Cothon building. Can field anything in the form of mercenaries from unlimited embassies. Apartment building - saves space, resources and allows you to advance to P3 faster. All of their heroes are very strong, especially Hannibal (+20% attack for all soldiers in 60m range). Has every siege and elephants. Weakness: archer + mercenary civ =  difficult for beginners to master. Also quite a complicated structure tree. 

 

Kushites: archer civ, but has good cav options and siege tower. Pyramids are useful for late game. Navy is a bit weak and difficult for beginners to master. 

Athenians: strong hoplites, good hero Iphicrates, and can field sword cav + catapults as well as champion archers. However, slinger + spear is a bit weak. One can replace infantry javelineer with cavalry javelineer at the cost of some food. Their naval bonus are good but not significant enough. 

 

 

 

[Player of 0AD]

There are some civs which I consider to be stronger than that:

- Britons: Starting with slingers is an eco bonus. Wardogs are also a nice bonus in the lategame and their chariots are very strong, almost unique. Caratacus is a very good hero.

- Mauryas: 10% pop bonus is half a full wonder, that's very good. Chariots and champ archers are also very strong. Only civ which has civil swordsmen and swordcav (... which are not mercenaries). Worker Elephants are a huge bonus for hunting. The healer hero is very good

- Carthaginians: Outstanding mercenary rushes

- Kushites: Are not very weak, for example because they have pikemen and decent heroes, and good champions

- Athenians: Similar to spartans, have also the very nice hoplite tradition. Iphicrates is an excellent hero. Swordcav is also a good bonus, and slingers are good for the early economy.

 

[Yekaterina]

6 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Britons: Starting with slingers is an eco bonus. Wardogs are also a nice bonus in the lategame and their chariots are very strong, almost unique. Caratacus is a very good hero.

Agreed. But I think Gauls are still stronger in eco. Slingers require you to mine early but javelins walk faster and doesn't need mining. 

7 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Mauryas: 10% pop bonus is half a full wonder, that's very good. Chariots and champ archers are also very strong. Only civ which has civil swordsmen and swordcav (... which are not mercenaries). Worker Elephants are a huge bonus for hunting. The healer hero is very good

Yes. I just don't like playing as them and they are a bit difficult to micro for beginners. But yes, for experienced players, they deserve more. 

8 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Carthaginians: Outstanding mercenary rushes

Yes, but I don't think noobs can pull out a mercenary rush successfully. Even I can't do one without delaying my path to P3. 

9 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Kushites: Are not very weak, for example because they have pikemen and decent heroes, and good champions

Archers... 

But yeah, their cav can replace infantry javelins. Heroes are champions are good, but maybe a bit difficult for beginners. Don't forget siege towers  but I doubt if any noobs can remember them and use them effectively. 

10 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Athenians: Similar to spartans, have also the very nice hoplite tradition. Iphicrates is an excellent hero. Swordcav is also a good bonus, and slingers are good for the early economy.

They get decimated by Macedonians or Spartans without the help of much cavalry. Cavalry = need more food = more stress on eco. 

Their mining bonus is nice but I think it is not as significant as the strengths of other civs. 

[Yekaterina]

I must add that although Ptolemies are strong when played well, few beginners can play them efficiently. So perhaps I wouldn't recommend them for very new players. 

[Jofursloft]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

OP tier: Spartans, Seleucids, Iberians, Ptolemies

Strong tier: Macedonians, Gauls, Romans, Persians

Mediocre tier: Britons, Mauryans, Carthaginians

Not recommended: Kushites, Athenians

I think that in this alpha civilizations are well balanced so I find difficult to do a ranking. I think every civilization has his pros and cons depending on the map and the situation you are playing. Anyway, this is my personal tier based on civs I would pick in 1v1 matches (talking about team games its impossible to do a ranking in my opinion):

OP TIRE:

- Spartans (good for rush counter, very good in late game thanks to op heroes and op army) 

- Romans (very good for rush counter thanks to skirms and spear cavs, very good in late game thanks to heroes, op champs)

- Macedonians (very good for rush counter thanks to skirms and spear cavs, very good in late game thanks to pikes; I don't like the infantry champions because in my opinion they are too slow, but mace still have a very good booming so you can prevent the opponent from doing Champs himself)

- Britons (very good for rush counter thanks to slings, very fast in booming, very good in late game thanks to good heroes, mixed army of slings ans skirms and sword cavalry, op champ chariots)

STRONG TIER

- Gauls (good for rush counter thanks to skirms, very good in late game thanks to sword cavalry and op heroes) 

- Seleucids (good counter for rushes thanks to skims, very good in late game thanks to eles, pikes, cavalry and cavalry hero) 

- Ptolemies (decent counter for rushes because having camels is not good against jav cavs, very good in latw game thanks to op hero and op army, maybe the best boom because of cheap buildings)

- Athen (very good counter against rushes thanks to slings, good in late games thanks to sword cavs and nice army) 

DECENT TIER

- Iberians (decent rush counter thanks to walls but not having spearmen is bad, good in late game thanks to hero, mixed army and champ cavarly) 

MEH TIER

- Persians , Mauryans, Carthaginians, Kushites (because of archers they are a meh counter against rushes, meh in late game because of archers if they have no time to go full cavs) 

[Yekaterina]

24 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

I think that in this alpha civilizations are well balanced so I find difficult to do a ranking. I think every civilization has his pros and cons depending on the map and the situation you are playing. Anyway, this is my personal tier based on civs I would pick in 1v1 matches (talking about team games its impossible to do a ranking in my opinion):

Totally agreed. 

28 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

MEH TIER

- Persians

Persians are better than you think because they can field spearmen + javelins like the other civ, but the extra 20 pop could be invested into archers or cavalry. Use archers to pick off enemy skirmishers from a safe distance, so their melee loose support and they will be routed pretty soon. Or, use cav to boost your attack. In addition, their 2 levy infantry techs allow you to replace dead units faster than your enemy, so I would consider their late game military to be very strong. However, I agree that they are vulnerable in early stages and boom slowly (because archers are more clumsy  than skirmishers in this alpha). 

30 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

 Mauryans

Don't forget about elephant archers (still strong) and +10% pop bonus. Also the sword cav is not to be underestimated. Furthermore the worker elephant offers a resource gathering bonus within its radius. Strong eco is the basis of games in A25 as you need to spam units. My strategy for Mauryans: train spear + swords from barracks, train javelin cav to replace dead archers.  But yes, noobs can't handle these too efficiently. I think weirdJokes is the expert at playing Mauryans, maybe consult him on strategy. 

35 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

Athen (very good counter against rushes thanks to slings, good in late games thanks to sword cavs and nice army) 

My strategy for Athen: use slings + women for wood, hoplites to mine. Then in P2 it's all hoplite. In P3, replace dead slings with javelin cav and spam melee. No more slingers in P3. In terms of rush defence... I think javelins + spears are the best combination (pikes are too slow). 

[LetswaveaBook]

4 hours ago, Jofursloft said:

I think that in this alpha civilizations are well balanced so I find difficult to do a ranking. I think every civilization has his pros and cons depending on the map and the situation you are playing. Anyway, this is my personal tier based on civs I would pick in 1v1 matches (talking about team games its impossible to do a ranking in my opinion):

I think there is indeed a bunch of them that are close and I wouldn't say that I can give an accurate ranking.

One thing I do know, is that Ptolemies are at the top.

1 Very good eco.

2. Pikemen and Slingers are not bad starting units.

3. Camel archers can be useful, though they are not as OP as in A24.

4. Nice special building such as the Colony and Library

5. 3 Excelent heros which are on top of that available from the CC. They are available early as Ptolemies can advance quicker due to their better eco. I think there are factions who do not have a single hero as useful as any of the Ptolemies.

6. Full siege and elephants.

7. Mercenaries, which are useful in this alpha.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

6 hours ago, Jofursloft said:

Iberians (decent rush counter thanks to walls but not having spearmen is bad, good in late game thanks to hero, mixed army and champ cavarly) 

many people, and myself included would put iber at the top 1-3 civs. But then, I like iber since a23. Iber, in addition to having very useful firecav champs, also have the cheapest and strongest infantry swords champion available in the game, once you train the hero Indibil.

[Jofursloft]

9 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Civs with small 5 pop houses are favored. 

Ah also I don't absolutely agree with this statement. I personally boom much better with 150 wood cost houses than with 75 ones. 

1 hour ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

many people, and myself included would put iber at the top 1-3 civs. But then, I like iber since a23. Iber, in addition to having very useful firecav champs, also have the cheapest and strongest infantry swords champion available in the game, once you train the hero Indibil.

You are right. My ranking is not meant to be objective and is just based on my personal style of playing. I just don't feel ibers to be "my civ".  

[Dizaka]

I would rank this way:

New Player:

OP tier: Spartans, Gauls, Romans, Iberians,

Strong tier: Ptolemies, Persians, Kushites, Seleucids, Carthaginians

Mediocre tier: Britons

Not recommended: Macedonians, Athenians, Mauryans

 

Advanced Player:

OP tier: Mauryans, Spartans, Gauls, Romans, Iberians

Strong tier: Macedonians, Carthaginians, Ptolemies, Persians, Kushites, Seleucids

Mediocre tier:  Britons

Not recommended: Athenians

 

 

OP currently are Champ Cav and Skiritai.  The civ of Spartans/Gauls/Romans are in this category.  Iberians (Swordsmen) and Mauryas (Cav Sword) have sword upgrade w/ r3 damage upgrade.  Additionally, Mauryans have early phase Elephant stable and the worker elephant.  I do not recommend Mauryas to new players b/c there is a lot happening and the civ can be confusing.

Britons/Ptol/Persians/Kushites have good unit diversity, especially Kushites.  In general, reasonably strong civs.  Ptol/Pers/Kush/Sele/Carth/Mace all have champion cavalry so they are strong, but if/when champ cav do get nerfed I don't think some of them would be there (Honestly, I think Pers cav with +10% pop and +20% dmg hero may be up there with Rome/Gauls with champ cav ... mace also has a dmg hero for champions but noone uses mace, lol ... carthage has +30% dmg melee cav hero.).  Macedonains can be strong if rushed fast p3 and go all champs.  However, that is their only strategy.  If that fails, however, you are SOL and likely to be easy pickings.

Britons I think are under-performing.

Athenians are down low since no champions can be built from Barracks/Stable.  I don't know why someone would play them other than maybe to try out the formation hero and his uniqueness.

  

10 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Don't forget about elephant archers (still strong) and +10% pop bonus. Also the sword cav is not to be underestimated. Furthermore the worker elephant offers a resource gathering bonus within its radius. Strong eco is the basis of games in A25 as you need to spam units. My strategy for Mauryans: train spear + swords from barracks, train javelin cav to replace dead archers.  But yes, noobs can't handle these too efficiently. I think weirdJokes is the expert at playing Mauryans, maybe consult him on strategy.

Heh, Mauryan ele archers are DOA with their pop cost at least early game.  Late game, if you're winning and have extra food, then maybe build them.  Otherwise, Mauryan ele archers I feel are not useful.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Dizaka

[Yekaterina]

3 hours ago, Jofursloft said:

I personally boom much better with 150 wood cost houses than with 75 ones. 

Agreed as well, I prefer 10 pop house, but some experienced players and maths say otherwise...

[Dizaka]

75 wood houses let you micro better. 

For example, with Mauryas with low res you can build 1 granery (+100 wood for food gathering upgrade) + 1 house.  This is just on starting resources.  Allows you to research stuff earlier.  Even better, with Mauryas you can build a storage point with food and decrease travel distance.

With Rome, for 300 wood you have a choice with 1 granery + ( 1 house OR gathering upgrade).  You are waiting for the resources to do the other thing.

But it's really only for low res games.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Dizaka

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@Yekaterina iber houses are a little large despite being 5 pop, and the walls make it a bit cluttered too so sometimes 10pop houses are easier 

[Feldfeld]

8 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Agreed as well, I prefer 10 pop house, but some experienced players and maths say otherwise...

I am not sure if maths say otherwise, you will note that the build time of 10-pop house is smaller than the build time of 2 5-pop houses, this compensates at least partially for the other advantages you can get with 5-pop houses

[Yekaterina]

5 pop house is only significant in early game. You can build a farmstead and a storehouse, then get your first house up immediately. For 150 wood houses if there are no trees near your cc then you need to wait for you wood choppers to build first storehouse, chop 50 wood, then force up your first big house. This hurts your efficiency. Ptolemies don't have this problem, they can spam and keep building. 

However, in late game, 5 pop houses need designated house builders, which is not really efficient anymore. It is very easy to get pop capped and you are forced to use smaller batches. Also they take up too much space, which is not good for small maps. This is the main weakness of Ptolemies. Therefore, I recommend researching the home manor tech in town phase if you have 5 pop house. 

Carthaginians apartments are very handy in town phase.

[LetswaveaBook]

2 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

 Also they take up too much space, which is not good for small maps.

That is not a disadvange. You could use those houses as walls, so cavalry does not raid you to death in A25. Also the extra build time is not that much and if you are (about to be) housed, small houses solve your problem easier.

[alre]

1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

That is not a disadvange. You could use those houses as walls, so cavalry does not raid you to death in A25. Also the extra build time is not that much and if you are (about to be) housed, small houses solve your problem easier.

it is a disadvantage if the map doesn't allow much building space. it can become quite stressing and time consumimg to find a spot for every house and building. 10 pop houses are better in such maps.

[Dizaka]

Houses are capturable.  Yea, you can garrison and make it harder to capture it.  However, why should houses perform the function of walls/palisades when walls/palisades exist.

[alre]

because you have to build houses anyway

[LetswaveaBook]

Considering this topic was aimed at beginner players I would say that the best factions for beginners are those who start with javilineers. I would recommend factions that have multiple siege options. I think there are some disadvantages about starting with the pikeman.

So that leaves us with Romans and Seleucids, which are the ones I would recommend for new players. Maybe it is better to leave two options, so these players can decide what strategy suits them best.

[Player of 0AD]

An alternative civ ranking: All civs are OP!

Athenians: OP hoplite spam, OP Iphicrates, OP sword cav
Britons: OP wardogs, OP chariots, OP boom, OP sword cav

Carthaginians: OP mercenaries, OP Hannibal, OP Marhabal, OP elephants
Gauls: OP champs, OP boom, OP sword cav, OP Vercingetorix
Iberians: OP team bonus, OP fire cav, OP swordsmen, OP Indibil
Kushites: OP pikemen, OP pyramids, OP champs, OP elephants
Mauryans: OP elephants, OP sword units, OP pop bonus, OP monk hero, OP champs
Macedons: OP spearcav, OP pikemen, OP champs
Persians: OP cav, OP pop bonus, OP elephants
Ptolemies: OP team bonus, OP boom, OP pikemen, OP elephants, OP heroes, OP colonies
Romans: OP spearcav, OP army camps, OP consular bodyguards
Seleucids: OP pikemen, OP champs, OP elephants, OP colonies
Spartans: OP hoplite spam, OP team bonus, OP Leonidas, OP Brasidas, OP skiritai, OP champs

[Dizaka]

On 31/08/2021 at 4:24 AM, Player of 0AD said:

An alternative civ ranking: All civs are OP!

Athenians: OP hoplite spam, OP Iphicrates, OP sword cav
Britons: OP wardogs, OP chariots, OP boom, OP sword cav

Carthaginians: OP mercenaries, OP Hannibal, OP Marhabal, OP elephants
Gauls: OP champs, OP boom, OP sword cav, OP Vercingetorix
Iberians: OP team bonus, OP fire cav, OP swordsmen, OP Indibil
Kushites: OP pikemen, OP pyramids, OP champs, OP elephants
Mauryans: OP elephants, OP sword units, OP pop bonus, OP monk hero, OP champs
Macedons: OP spearcav, OP pikemen, OP champs
Persians: OP cav, OP pop bonus, OP elephants
Ptolemies: OP team bonus, OP boom, OP pikemen, OP elephants, OP heroes, OP colonies
Romans: OP spearcav, OP army camps, OP consular bodyguards
Seleucids: OP pikemen, OP champs, OP elephants, OP colonies
Spartans: OP hoplite spam, OP team bonus, OP Leonidas, OP Brasidas, OP skiritai, OP champs

Looks like Sparta/Ptol win.