Addition of Han Chinese to 0AD

[Lion.Kanzen]

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/6412

@Yekaterina

you should make a patch to include the xml.

this is while the art team completes assignments.

[Yekaterina]

3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

you should make a patch to include the xml.

For some reason I can't, because I can't log into my dev account. I will create a smurf dev account then. 

[Freagarach]

46 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

For some reason I can't, because I can't log into my dev account. I will create a smurf dev account then. 

And you can't use the "forgot password" feature?

4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

you should make a patch to include the xml.

I think @Stan` is already on it.

[Yekaterina]

@Lion.Kanzen @Stan` @Freagarach

 

[Yekaterina]

After trying out a few battles against the AI I think the civ is not yet ready for commit; there are big balancing issues.

The techs available to archers solves the range vs dps problem, but the crossbow champions are quite useless... we should replace them with a spear cav champion, or add a spear cav champion alongside (like the Seleucids and Persians). 

[Lion.Kanzen]

14 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

After trying out a few battles against the AI I think the civ is not yet ready for commit; there are big balancing issues.

The techs available to archers solves the range vs dps problem, but the crossbow champions are quite useless... we should replace them with a spear cav champion, or add a spear cav champion alongside (like the Seleucids and Persians). 

Probably lancer.

[Lion.Kanzen]

17 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

After trying out a few battles against the AI I think the civ is not yet ready for commit; there are big balancing issues.

The techs available to archers solves the range vs dps problem, but the crossbow champions are quite useless... we should replace them with a spear cav champion, or add a spear cav champion alongside (like the Seleucids and Persians). 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone How do the crossbows work in Delenda Est?

[Freagarach]

26 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

there are big balancing issues.

Nothing different from the main game?

(I'm saying that those can be fixed after committed.)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

There is a spear cav champion. Did you actually play the mod?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

24 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

How do the crossbows work in Delenda Est?

Crossbows are trash units in DE, because although crossbows are more technological than bows, they were equipped on masses of quickly trained peasants. 

[Emperior]

48 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Crossbows are trash units in DE, because although crossbows are more technological than bows, they were equipped on masses of quickly trained peasants. 

so make the civ special by allowing peasants to take up a weapon = crossbow and defend own base lol.

 

 

sounds actually unique for that civ.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

2 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

The techs available to archers solves the range vs dps problem

@Yekaterinacould you please clarify?
 

I have not been able to test this civ, but I would be willing if there was some easy install thing like a mod.

Seems like some long ranged unit has high dps?

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

@Yekaterinacould you please clarify?
 

I have not been able to test this civ, but I would be willing if there was some easy install thing like a mod.

Github really is easy to use.

[Yekaterina]

6 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Yekaterinacould you please clarify?

You can research poison arrow tech, after which, your fully upgraded champion infantry archer will do 20.3 damage, which is on par with upgraded javlin infantry, so it's not a certain death for the Han player. But, they have to reach P3 and be very rich to afford many champions, so they are still underpowered. All other civs have javelin or slingers, but Han only has archers so theor maximum dps output is low. There is no chance a Han army of swords + spears + archers will survive something like javelin + pikes or slinger + pikes. 

In terms of cavalry, they start with cav archer (fine...) but their champion cavalry is basically a mobile version of Macedonian crossbowmen, and we all know how useless those are.

There are spear champ templates but they are not trainable yet... Need to add them to a production queue of some buildings
 

Champions can only be produced from the academy -> bad

They need some buff to organic units. 

Their bolt shooter, however, is extremely OP. Valihrant's bolt shooter rush will destroy anyone if he gets Han civ.

[Lion.Kanzen]

13 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

You can research poison arrow tech, after which, your fully upgraded champion infantry archer will do 20.3 damage, which is on par with upgraded javlin infantry, so it's not a certain death for the Han player. But, they have to reach P3 and be very rich to afford many champions, so they are still underpowered. All other civs have javelin or slingers, but Han only has archers so theor maximum dps output is low. There is no chance a Han army of swords + spears + archers will survive something like javelin + pikes or slinger + pikes. 

In terms of cavalry, they start with cav archer (fine...) but their champion cavalry is basically a mobile version of Macedonian crossbowmen, and we all know how useless those are.

There are spear champ templates but they are not trainable yet... Need to add them to a production queue of some buildings
 

Champions can only be produced from the academy -> bad

They need some buff to organic units. 

Their bolt shooter, however, is extremely OP. Valihrant's bolt shooter rush will destroy anyone if he gets Han civ.

we should  to fix what does not conform to the standard.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Their bolt shooter, however, is extremely OP

XD

So the Han suffer from same ranged unit issues as Kush. Do han get any mercs?

The chu-ko-nu was in part of the debate for a bit. I was thinking it could be low accuracy (lower than archers that dont have archer accuracy upgrade) but with slightly greater range and dps than slingers. Very high fire rate, but low damage per shot. Cost could be 50 food 40 wood 10 metal, which is unlike any other ranged unit.

 

[Yekaterina]

11 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

So the Han suffer from same ranged unit issues as Kush. Do han get any mercs?

No. Kush at least has jav cav as replacement. Han gets nothing. No mercs neither. 

 

12 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

he chu-ko-nu was in part of the debate for a bit. I was thinking it could be low accuracy (lower than archers that dont have archer accuracy upgrade) but with slightly greater range and dps than slingers. Very high fire rate, but low damage per shot. Cost could be 50 food 40 wood 10 metal, which is unlike any other ranged unit.

I think the unit is fine

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

No. Kush at least has jav cav as replacement. Han gets nothing. No mercs neither. 

the faction dates from before we thought about making mercenaries.

I came to propose in 2010-2012 an additional faction in Rise of the East. (Xiongnu) it was crazy to add so many things.

Telling fellow modders about mercenaries would have been pretty crazy.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1. The Han have both Pikemen and Champion Cavalry Spearmen. You can 100% train both of these units playing the latest iteration of the mod. And when I say latest, I mean for the past several weeks/couple months. 

2. The Han Academy has a similar function to the Athenian Gymnasium and the Spartan Syssition, but has twice as many champion options than either of those buildings do. While the building isn't free, you don't have to research the champion unlocking techs like most other civs do. I mean, this building just rocks.

3. Javelins and Mercenaries: I actually do propose a couple of mercenaries for them, one of them being a javelineer. 

 

The Dian Warrior, from the Dian Kingdom of Southwest China

• A Mercenary Javelineer available from the Practice Range in Phase II
• Switches to Sword in close combat once the game has that feature

 

The Yue Warrior, from the tribes inhabiting Southern China and seashores of Southeast Asia

• A Mercenary Spearman available from the Barracks in Phase II

Edited February 11, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

1. The Han have both Pikemen and Champion Cavalry Spearmen. You can 100% train both of these units playing the latest iteration of the mod. And when I say latest, I mean for the past several weeks/couple months. 

2. The Han Academy has a similar function to the Athenian Gymnasium and the Spartan Syssition, but has twice as many champion options than either of those buildings do. While the building isn't free, you don't have to research the champion unlocking techs like most other civs do. I mean, this building just rocks.

3. Javelins and Mercenaries: I actually do propose a couple of mercenaries for them, one of them being a javelineer. 

 

The Dian Warrior, from the Dian Kingdom of Southwest China

• A Mercenary Javelineer available from the Practice Range in Phase II
• Switches to Sword in close combat once the game has that feature

 

The Yue Warrior, from the tribes inhabiting Southern China and seashores of Southeast Asia

• A Mercenary Spearman available from the Barracks in Phase II

These towns served as Auxiliaries against other peoples in the region.

Several of these people they tattooed their bodies.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Lion.Kanzen

[Yekaterina]

13 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The Dian Warrior, from the Dian Kingdom of Southwest China

• A Mercenary Javelineer available from the Practice Range in Phase II
• Switches to Sword in close combat once the game has that feature

Good good at least some javelin. 

Note: Dian and Yue are Babarians and not exactly of Han blood. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Note: Dian and Yue are Babarians and not exactly of Han blood. 

80% of Carthage's roster is not of Punic blood.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Good good at least some javelin. 

Note: Dian and Yue are Babarians and not exactly of Han blood. 

many civilizations have that idea. the Mayans and Natives of the Valley of Mexico saw the same as the others.

Such technology would be interesting.

 

Mandate to civilize.

Romans, Hellenes, Persians, Han , Mayans They had that vision.

It still exists, it is currently called Agenda 2030.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

19 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This artwork is amazing! Congratulations for all the devs' hard work! All these units look really cool too.

 

Just after looking at the mod in gitHub, I can tell there is a lot of new and interesting content for the Han civ. They seem to have a lot of citizen soldiers and champions already, with unique technologies, buildings, siege units, and support units. I have no problem with all the differentiating aspects so far, and I like how the civ looks so far. Do they really need more units? On the other hand, maybe a limited mercenary lineup as seen with Athenians is appropriate after all.

Really, my only concern is it now looks like the Han have received a lot more love than the other civilizations (at least it looks like it after surveying the buildings, technologies, and units available).

In any case, it seems like the Han will have several options for playstyles, which is exciting.