Delenda Est and A24

[mysticjim]

Hi @wowgetoffyourcellphone

Still planning/scripting the feature covering Delenda est on my Youtube Channel - obviously, the timing of the arrival of A24 has thrown my schedule out completely, but just wanted to check if anything signifcant has changed as a result.

 

So, I know Delenda Est is compatible with A24, and presumably the revised stats, extra phase and little nuances of it are identical, but has anything noticeably shifted?  Playing A24 has a different feel in terms of the pace of the game, it's pathfinding, etc, does Delenda Est incorporate those subtle changes or basically ignore them and retain it's previous pace and feel? 

Balance is one of the key talking points in A24, have original 0AD civs retained their stats from A23, or have they been revised in accordance with A24, and if so, has this shifted the playing experience somewhat?

Finally, would you say with A24 have the two projects moved closer together/become more aligned, or possibly deviated further? 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The stats of all units and structures in DE have very little in common with EA (the base game). A24's rebalancing had no effect on DE. Delenda Est's civs are very unique from each other and play a lot different from A24. 

A big change you'll notice right off the bat is the hero selection screen when you launch a game. Most civs give the player a choice of which hero to have for the entire match. These heroes have a large effect on the game with auras, bonuses, and special technologies. Some heroes even change the unit composition of the civ. For instance, as a Spartan player choosing Leonidas the player has access to hoplite units, while if the player chooses Cleomenes they gain access to phalangite units instead.

DE A24 adds the Scythians as a playable civ. They can build their buildings anywhere on the map and have no territory effects or restrictions. Consequently their buildings are cheapest and weakest in the game. Their hero selection screens aren't done yet and their tech tree is in flux, but they're playable.

Suebian Germans are also included in DE A24. They have Axemen and Wolf Warriors and cheap wooden structures. As with the Scythians they are still a WIP, but very playable.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Only 2 more civs left to make Hero selection graphics: Zapotecs (I recently decided to go ahead and include them and complete them) and Scythians (who I have been working on for the past several months off and on). After that, I have to go through and fill out all the missing Hero bonuses and auras. Some of them currently say "To be determined."

Edited March 14, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[fasl]

Just checking whether anything has changed in the code to stop Delenda working on A24.  I get following errors on trying to get to lobby for a new singleplayer or multiplayer match.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, fasl said:

Just checking whether anything has changed in the code to stop Delenda working on A24.  I get following errors on trying to get to lobby for a new singleplayer or multiplayer match.

Use this (it'll work with A24)

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est

 

A23 DE will not work on A24 base game. 

[fasl]

This was the latest github version downloaded yesterday... Really unsure what I did wrong. I installed in the my documents/my games/0ad/mods and enabled in mod manager. Thanks for your help with this

[Carltonus]

Tried downloading the .zip directly in GitHub, but it's corrupted and cannot extract all files completely, even with 7-Zip. Only the art folder is probably complete, nothing else.

[Radiotraining]

Personally, I downloaded and installed the GitHub zip something like a couple of weeks ago and is all working (great stuff btw!!) .. so not really sure what could have changed in the last few days 

[Langbart]

1 hour ago, fasl said:

This was the latest github version downloaded yesterday... Really unsure what I did wrong. I installed in the my documents/my games/0ad/mods and enabled in mod manager. Thanks for your help with this

Seems like a small mistake probably be fixed very soon.

/delenda_est/simulation/data/civs/sueb.json

[Yekaterina]

I encountered this error when I installed Delenda Est 24:

[Yekaterina]

This does not seem to be related to Suebian Germans

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Lol k, thanks for the bug reports guys. Will be fixed today, if it isn't already fixed.

 

The repo is constantly in flux. I update it every day (many times multiple times per day), so I honestly suggest if you want to keep up with Delenda Est changes to go ahead and install Github Desktop. It's a nice UI for pulling changes from the repo without having to download the entire zip every time you want to update. 

[fasl]

Thank you Langbart for the fix and Justus for the tip!  I have cloned the github repo and look forward to the fix - guessing not done yet as still have the same error but will try a "github pull" tomorrow.

Once A24 version is released on modio should I stick with this if wishing to remain on stable release of 0AD?  I'm guessing at some point the DE repo will diverge and lose compatibility with A24 in favour of A25 SVN... but wondering if you intend to continue to develop on A24 as a branch.

Or should I have both 0AD versions of 0AD in parallel to keep up with the latest Delenda Est while still being able to compete online with A24?  

Again thanks for taking the time to answer my questions - really appreciate that you volunteer a lot of time to contribute to 0AD and I must sound like a complete noob.

Edited April 3, 2021 by fasl

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 hours ago, Langbart said:

Seems like a small mistake probably be fixed very soon.

/delenda_est/simulation/data/civs/sueb.json

This was the fix. Done and committed.  

[Lopess]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Lol k, thanks for the bug reports guys. Will be fixed today, if it isn't already fixed.

 

The repo is constantly in flux. I update it every day (many times multiple times per day), so I honestly suggest if you want to keep up with Delenda Est changes to go ahead and install Github Desktop. It's a nice UI for pulling changes from the repo without having to download the entire zip every time you want to update. 

 

For Linux users (at least Ubuntu and derivatives) I recommend the Sublime Merge. I tested several programs before meeting him and he was the only one who managed to satify me the noob that I am.

[Carltonus]

Still the same issue that I last posted above when downloading .zip file (only art folder is complete, no simulation folder, etc.). Looks like someone beat it to me posting this issue on GitHub.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

35 minutes ago, Carltonus said:

Still the same issue that I last posted above when downloading .zip file (only art folder is complete, no simulation folder, etc.). Looks like someone beat it to me posting this issue on GitHub.

This is not a Delenda Est problem as that zip is automatically generated by Github. I don't make that zip, Github does. The server zips it together, JustusAvramenko does not. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Carltonus said:

Still the same issue that I last posted above when downloading .zip file (only art folder is complete, no simulation folder, etc.). Looks like someone beat it to me posting this issue on GitHub.

Unfortunately, I cannot reproduce. I downloaded the ZIP from github intact.

delenda_est-master.zip

3.7 gb

I can open the zip and navigate the folders with no problem. I am sorry. It's possible that your connections are severing or timing out because the download is so large. 

 

IMHO, it's super easy to use Github Desktop or the comparable Linux app to download the mod. That way, after the initial download of 3+ gigs, any subsequent pulls will be very small and very quick. And if your connection times out, you can resume the git update where you left off. That's my best advice for now, as I really can't duplicate your issue. :/ 

[smiley]

5 hours ago, Carltonus said:

Looks like someone beat it to me posting this issue on GitHub.

GitHub downloads don't show size. It's extremely annoying, but it is how it is.

[Carltonus]

Tested the latest, it’s a bit laggy even with low graphic settings. Cursor freezes for a few moments every few seconds.

[Yekaterina]

The mod is certainly more hardware demanding than vanilla A24.

I have noticed a few things:

1. Model of berries used is identical to that of A23

2. Storehouses can delete trees... If you try to place a storehouse on top of some trees it lets you place down the foundation and when some units come and build it the trees disappear. 

3. Quite a lot of error messages while loading the map and takes much longer to load the game

4. Siege towers and catapults do little damage, and many buildings cannot be captured. Buildings are vulnerable to projectiles... I shot down 2 towers with only 17 archers.

5. Choose hero and train from phase 1?! I think we should determine the hero character later because our choice is influenced by the enemy's tactics and our strategy. It's hard to choose the best one without knowing what your enemy will be up to.

6. Rams and siege weapons are vulnerable to skirmishers and archers.

 

It is an interesting mod and job well done to the dev. But, it does feel more like slow-pace city-building rather than competitive tournaments. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

1. Model of berries used is identical to that of A23

I don't like the A24 ones, so I kept the A23 ones for visual detection reasons (A24 kind of blend into the terrain comparatively).

 

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

2. Storehouses can delete trees... If you try to place a storehouse on top of some trees it lets you place down the foundation and when some units come and build it the trees disappear. 

Feature, not a bug. Straggler trees no longer impede building placement. It's not feature complete though, as I would like the tree to turn red when the building preview waves over it.

 

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

3. Quite a lot of error messages while loading the map and takes much longer to load the game

Which map? What errors? Thanks.

 

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

4. Siege towers and catapults do little damage, and many buildings cannot be captured. Buildings are vulnerable to projectiles... I shot down 2 towers with only 17 archers.

Quite a lot to unpack here. Siege Towers aren't feature complete. I may make them unbuildable for now. Catapults aren't balanced yet. Most buildings can't be captured to make the capturing mechanic more targeted. Buildings and projectiles. Again, I've not fully balanced anything yet.

 

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

5. Choose hero and train from phase 1?! I think we should determine the hero character later because our choice is influenced by the enemy's tactics and our strategy. It's hard to choose the best one without knowing what your enemy will be up to.

The hero is for you to choose your strategy. There are other ways to counter what your enemy is doing.

 

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

6. Rams and siege weapons are vulnerable to skirmishers and archers.

Will be fixed.

 

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

It is an interesting mod and job well done to the dev. But, it does feel more like slow-pace city-building rather than competitive tournaments. 

A match can play out in about 40 mins. Similar to AOE2.