profanity

[sil-vous-plait]

why is it that the "WFG bot" will not allow me to use certain curse words in the lobby in a friendly context with other players (consensual, jokingly), yet this is allowed? if you're going to police for that, at least prevent this. presumably you can use the same over-zealous set of "bad" words for usernames/games too? this is one example of many, many I've come across in a relatively short time of playing (less than 3 months), including several references to Hitler.

thx, and congrats on an incredible game.

[Silier]

@user1 can be something done about it? 

[DanW58]

I always say that profanity-phobics make profanity necessary.  As long as there are people offended by it, there will be a need for people to provide the required offenses.

But yes, consistency, or the lack of it, is a whole other story.

 

[sil-vous-plait]

2 hours ago, DanW58 said:

I always say that profanity-phobics make profanity necessary.  As long as there are people offended by it, there will be a need for people to provide the required offenses.

But yes, consistency, or the lack of it, is a whole other story.

 

I sort of agree, as alluded to when I referred to the WFG Bot in the lobby as "over-zealous," but here we don't even need to open the can of worms of "What is profanity?" and I actually made the mistake of bringing this up. Regardless of the WFG Bot's policies and set of policed words, I think the behavior I'm highlighting needs to be prevented—again, regardless of and independent to what is considered "profanity." It's beyond that.

[kangz]

3 hours ago, sil-vous-plait said:

I sort of agree, as alluded to when I referred to the WFG Bot in the lobby as "over-zealous," but here we don't even need to open the can of worms of "What is profanity?" and I actually made the mistake of bringing this up. Regardless of the WFG Bot's policies and set of policed words, I think the behavior I'm highlighting needs to be prevented—again, regardless of and independent to what is considered "profanity." It's beyond that.

 

he is a rapper and calls himself nibbadick. whats the issue?

[Grapjas]

12 hours ago, kangz said:

he is a rapper and calls himself nibbadick. whats the issue?

If you don't see the issue you are likely a part of it.

[sil-vous-plait]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:50 PM, kangz said:

 

he is a rapper and calls himself nibbadick. whats the issue?

 

.....idiot

anyways, WFG can you comment with a generic "we're working on this" or preferably just do something about it?

[kangz]

Quote

.....idiot

anyways, WFG can you comment with a generic "we're working on this" or preferably just do something about it?

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by kangz

[sil-vous-plait]

1 hour ago, kangz said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Stan`]

11 hours ago, sil-vous-plait said:

anyways, WFG can you comment with a generic "we're working on this" or preferably just do something about it?

I'm pinging @user1 again as he handles the lobby alone.

[sil-vous-plait]

On 7/2/2021 at 1:48 AM, Stan` said:

I'm pinging @user1 again as he handles the lobby alone.

@user1

maybe a fix for A25? still unsure why saying "I played @#$% that match" gets you muted/kicked yet a literal player named nazi exists and is online as I write this (amongst other ethno nationalist garbage in the lobby chat)

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 04/02/2021 at 11:50 AM, DanW58 said:

I always say that profanity-phobics make profanity necessary.  As long as there are people offended by it, there will be a need for people to provide the required offenses.

But yes, consistency, or the lack of it, is a whole other story.

 

they should create their own lists.

[Yekaterina]

Perhaps we can create a filter for new usernames and game names:

Compare the name to a blacklist of offensive vocabulary

If blacklisted vocabulary is in the name then ban. 

This way direct profanity as shown above will be eliminated.

 

 

[Yekaterina]

I write this program in pseudocode/python: let blacklist.txt contain all of the banned words:

username = string(input("Enter your name"))

file = open("blacklist.txt")

for line in range(0, lengthOfBlacklist):

   if string(file.readline()) in username:

      print("Choose a better name")

   else:

      pass

 

this way they will get spammed if their name contains many offensive words

[Yekaterina]

nazi is a Taiwanese player. He has a zh-tw mod and he often plays with another Taiwanese dude called soviet. 

They like unlimited population and when I spec one of their games I saw one of them making 300 Agema Basileos (Ptol Cav champ) and the other making 200 champion pikemen...

 

[Palaxin]

On 04/02/2021 at 6:50 PM, DanW58 said:

I always say that profanity-phobics make profanity necessary.  As long as there are people offended by it, there will be a need for people to provide the required offenses.

The problem with this reasoning is that you can twist it to justify about anything. A community needs rules just as a society does.

BTW I am kind of annoyed of the inflationary use of the word "-phobia"/"-phobic" for any kind of disagreement whether it is coupled with fear (the actual meaning of that word) or not.

[Lion.Kanzen]

19 minutes ago, Palaxin said:

BTW I am kind of annoyed of the inflationary use of the word "-phobia"/"-phobic" for any kind of disagreement whether it is coupled with fear (the actual meaning of that word) or not.

I agree. it is used in social political language. It is a form of blackmail to force you to accept certain globalist policies.

[Lion.Kanzen]

6 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Perhaps we can create a filter for new usernames and game names:

Compare the name to a blacklist of offensive vocabulary

If blacklisted vocabulary is in the name then ban. 

This way direct profanity as shown above will be eliminated.

 

 

It's hard AOE did something similar. It must be adapted to the culture.

 

In Spanish Quique or Kike means Enrique.

Or Negro means Black color.

[pAris]

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

I write this program in pseudocode/python: let blacklist.txt contain all of the banned words:

username = string(input("Enter your name"))

file = open("blacklist.txt")

for line in range(0, lengthOfBlacklist):

   if string(file.readline()) in username:

      print("Choose a better name")

   else:

      pass

 

this way they will get spammed if their name contains many offensive words

Does profanity lose its power when certain letters are replaced with similar symbols?

This is an extremely hard problem to solve.

And let's face it, Nazi rhetoric is way worse than 90% of words you can say no matter how clean the language is.

First of all profanity isn't that big of a deal. Secondly separate profanity from slurs. Then try to police that. Much larger platforms and communities have had to resort to good old fashioned human intervention to do so.

[Yekaterina]

What about just reporting offenders to user1

[Yekaterina]

If they bypass my filter technique by replacing certain letters with symbols then no problem: they shame themselves by trying so hard to associate their identity with something vulgar under everyone's watch. 

If people want to name themselves nazi or Soviet then let them be; we just ban them from our TGs when we host.

I am pretty sure someone can mute people in the lobby. I see Hamdich has been muted (although I am not sure what he has done to deserve that).  

[sil-vous-plait]

yeah even a blocking feature would maybe be better than arriving at a blacklist of words, although I think without too much debate there is a small list of words (which frequently appear as usernames and/or in the lobby chat) that could easily be blocked. anyone opposed to that is either sympathetic or fronting for something (if only wanting to be edgy)

I don't actually mind that much—ignoring bigots is so easy—it just seems a shame that the lobby is frequently filled with this garbage when it would be so easy to take out the trash. you can hang around for an hour or so and catch some ethnic cleansing rants easily. maybe give the ability of a few trusted players to mute for this stuff/kick people—why does that only have to be in the hands of WFG? we inhabit the lobby, give us the ability to care for it

to people suggesting reporting to @user1, that seems too manual of a task and I can only imagine they have enough on their plate with the "report quitters" thread (also judging by the fact I haven't seen them chime in or address this 3 month-old thread)

[smgzlez]

Just to say that I believe that words are not as important as speech. About a month ago I had an attempted conversation with a player who was eventually muted from the multiplayer lobby because he had been crudely propagandizing Catholicism for weeks. I don't have the screenshots because the day I got into the conversation it ended up resolving and user 1 muted him. But in his case it wasn't so much about the words he used, although he did mention Nazism, talked about blacks in a demeaning way, etc. The point is that he was urging us to read the bible, to thank Jesus Christ, he kept copying phrases from the bible and saying that God created the world, that this game is an ode to Jesus Christ, etc. In this particular case, I do not think that a multiplayer lobby is a place to spam this kind of things and, in addition, if I told him to stop, he started a 1vs1 dialogue in which he was not respecting the freedom of each person to think what he wants. It was like if you get a letter from Jehovah's Witnesses at home and an attempt of absolute indoctrination. I was like "Stop, ok, it's perfect that you believe all of that, but this is not the place to adoctrinate people and everyone has right to their own thoughts". And he was like "You are wrong, you don't know anything because this game is an ode to Jesus Christ and we should thank Jesus Christ because God... blablabla and how can you explain it, and the other thing... You can't, because God... more blablabla"

How do you control that? It wasn't about the words, but it's true that it took me half an afternoon of discussion and other people in the multiplayer lobby intervening and freaking out to get it silenced.

Edited May 11, 2021 by smgzlez

[sil-vous-plait]

12 hours ago, smgzlez said:

Just to say that I believe that words are not as important as speech. About a month ago I had an attempted conversation with a player who was eventually muted from the multiplayer lobby because he had been crudely propagandizing Catholicism for weeks. I don't have the screenshots because the day I got into the conversation it ended up resolving and user 1 muted him. But in his case it wasn't so much about the words he used, although he did mention Nazism, talked about blacks in a demeaning way, etc. The point is that he was urging us to read the bible, to thank Jesus Christ, he kept copying phrases from the bible and saying that God created the world, that this game is an ode to Jesus Christ, etc. In this particular case, I do not think that a multiplayer lobby is a place to spam this kind of things and, in addition, if I told him to stop, he started a 1vs1 dialogue in which he was not respecting the freedom of each person to think what he wants. It was like if you get a letter from Jehovah's Witnesses at home and an attempt of absolute indoctrination. I was like "Stop, ok, it's perfect that you believe all of that, but this is not the place to adoctrinate people and everyone has right to their own thoughts". And he was like "You are wrong, you don't know anything because this game is an ode to Jesus Christ and we should thank Jesus Christ because God... blablabla and how can you explain it, and the other thing... You can't, because God... more blablabla"

How do you control that? It wasn't about the words, but it's true that it took me half an afternoon of discussion and other people in the multiplayer lobby intervening and freaking out to get it silenced.

re: "controlling that," I think community-level moderation (i.e. not only left to WFG, especially if they are short handed) is one possibility. I think this also supersedes the need to block particular words, which as pointed out above is A. a huge task and B. will be circumvented anyways. with that said I do still find it shocking that the 0AD online name registration system allows this stuff—to me that is beyond/distinct from any kind of "What's actually possible to moderate" conversation and actually just "Multiplayer Game Development 101" stuff, I was so surprised this was overlooked. letting anyone register any name seems like something you'd find in a list of "5 things not to do when making an online game." duplicate accounts and rankings seem to be policed more than racial slurs in usernames.

this was basically the gist of the reasoning behind this thread: I think the game/community would benefit from some increased ability to maintain the multiplayer games + lobby in this way, where as the current method of some elementary level bad words being singled out for automatic muting isn't really covering these sorts of scenarios. most of it seems like such an easy thing to implement, and while I honestly have not been around for anywhere near the lifespan of this game I'm surprised it's only being looked at in its 25th iteration?

[sil-vous-plait]

apologies for double post, but @Stan` is this the sort of thing that would best be addressed by submitting a proposal to https://code.wildfiregames.com? for example: allow players a personal "mute" list, or implement community-elected moderators for online lobby, etc, etc? just remembering some takeaways from other A23 vs. A24 threads and recalling that this is a possible mechanism. to my mind it's a relatively common sense thing that shouldn't need a community-based proposal to implement (but instead should come from WFG), but also wondering if the realities of how things get done dictate a different approach

Edited May 11, 2021 by sil-vous-plait