===[COMPLETED]=== Terrain and Map Overhaul (Milestone: Alpha 25)

[maroder]

Yes, I just tried it with the pre-colonial mod. Still only chickens. And if I change the .json its still only chicken. Maybe its an a25 Problem? Do you use a24?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, maroder said:

Further question: Does the resourceCounts in the biome .json work only for trees or also for stone/metal/hunt ect. ? Judging from the randombiome.js it is only trees, which would be sad.

I wondered this too. If the schema at that section allowed me to adjust animal numbers as sometimes they seem quite inadequate. Also having just 2 possible huntables severely limits a biome such as Savanna which has a large variety of herd animals. Biomes also don't let you choose dangerous animals?

[Stan`]

Map upgrade done.

Now I need someone's help to identify:

• all the skirmish/scenario/random maps that are subpar,
• all the assets that are so bad they shouldn't be used

So that we can make a mod out of it

 

[maroder]

I will look through them.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Including textures I guess ...?

[Stan`]

Sure.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Including textures I guess ...?

 

10 hours ago, Stan` said:

Sure.

I would say most of the old terrains won't be compatible with the newer stuff, but there are some here and there which I'll poach for the terrain update.

 

11 hours ago, maroder said:

I will look through them.

Excellent! You've been a big help so far.

[maroder]

Here is my personal "prettiness" rating of the skirmish maps:

skirmish_maps_rating.csv

1: Eyecandy (keep)

2: Still nice but some textures could be updated (keep)

3: Need some work, mostly on the texture side (maybe keep)

4: misc, similar to 3 (maybe keep)

5: Does not look nice or has a random map that is equally good (would't mind removal)

6: Definitive remove (Basically the trigger map)

 

* Edit: forgot the Naval Maps, but they are all category 3

Summary: even if we keep only the maps from category 1 and 2 we still have 37 left, which is _plenty_

 

one general question: What exactly is the difference between the skirmish and the scenario maps? Because I see no reason not to combine those two.

Edited May 26, 2021 by maroder

[wraitii]

The concrete difference is that you can't edit scenario settings, while you can edit some skirmish settings (mostly the civilisations).

This could be changed if/when we allow 'freezing' the civs in the gameosetup, which wouldn't be too difficult.

Edit -> but we also have "random maps" that are only partly procedural now, with fixed terrain, the the distinction has grown increasingly confusing. I wouldn't be against cleaning all that up sometimes soon, particularly since the whole concept of "map type" is annoying in the code.

[Stan`]

6 minutes ago, maroder said:

one general question: What exactly is the difference between the skirmish and the scenario maps? Because I see no reason not to combine those two.

Scenario maps are supposed to be elaborated more, sometimes with triggers and objectives.

Skirmish Maps are just the rest of maps that are not random

20 hours ago, maroder said:

: Definitive remove (Basically the trigger map)

What's wrong with the trigger map ?

[maroder]

2 hours ago, wraitii said:

I wouldn't be against cleaning all that up sometimes soon, particularly since the whole concept of "map type" is annoying in the code.

A cleanup would definitely be good imo.

2 hours ago, Stan` said:

What's wrong with the trigger map ?

Mostly that it's a trigger map ( but could also use new textures). My main problem is that it is included in the default filter, so you click on it, expect a normal game and then gaia shows up and bothers you the whole time.

_____________________________________________

My first proposal for a cleanup would be:

Skirmish maps: All the nice looking maps that are not procedual

Random maps: All the nice looking "normal" procedural maps

Special maps: All the trigger maps and otherwise "special" maps, independent how they are generated

And the maps that are now in the scenario category can either be put in the skirmish category, if they don't use triggers/ have special objectives, they can be put in the special category if they have these features or if they have really elaborate objectives, they should be turned into a campaign.

_____________________________________________

Second proposal if we want to get rid of the skirmish/random differentiation completely (which I also wouldn't mind)

Default/Standard: All skirmish and "normal" procedual maps (i.e maps where you can have standard match on without having to worry about flooding or gaia attacks ect)

Special maps: The rest (Trigger, Objectives, experimental ect.)

And then we could still use tags for the map filter e.g. "balanced", "MP", "naval" ect.

______________________________________________

The best reason I see the keep the skirmish/random differentiation, is that you can choose the # of player on random maps, which you cannot on skirmish maps. But I don't think this would be a huge problem.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, maroder said:

And the maps that are now in the scenario category can either be put in the skirmish category

you would have to modify quite a few things.

 

Scenarios are intended for campaigns and it was the first type of map in the game.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Request add dry grass, with and without soil, I take some example photos.

 

From a distance it looks like this, it is a combination of cut grass, (hay) with green parts of grass and parts with mud / dirt.

I parked my car nearby and the ground had less grass.

 

But it would look like this, if it works for you you can use some pieces, some areas.

 

The sun is 10 a.m. , summer sun. I don't know if it works for a tropical / African biome

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

19 hours ago, maroder said:

one general question: What exactly is the difference between the skirmish and the scenario maps? Because I see no reason not to combine those two.

Scenario maps would theoretically have triggers, locked teams, locked civs, storylines, locked victory conditions, specific starting resources, objectives, etc. 

Skirmish maps allow the flexibility of random maps, by allowing players to choose their civs, victory conditions, starting resources, and a few other options, while allowing the designer to sculpt a great-looking map in Atlas.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

An inspiration for Bactriana. 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

An inspiration for Bactriana. 

Those rapids look like a great ride! Has it ever been tried to artistically represent a standing wave like that in 0ad?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

41 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Those rapids look like a great ride! Has it ever been tried to artistically represent a standing wave like that in 0ad?

This is all we got

 

[maroder]

to collect feedback about the biomes in one place:

invisible fish -> fixed

more hunt for sahara (that didn't change as far as I know?)(link)

walruses for arctic, less trees for india (link)

problems distinguishing fruit and wood trees in Nubia, bad tree distribution in Savanna and Nubia (link)

hard to click on bushes in Eurasian Steppe (link)

@LetswaveaBook biome review video with likes and dislikes

Acacia canopy too big & grass in India hides stuff/ makes it hard to build Link

Metal and stone hard to distinguish link

Edited August 28, 2021 by maroder

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Alpha 26 thread here: 

 

[maroder]

On 26/05/2021 at 3:50 PM, maroder said:

Here is my personal "prettiness" rating of the skirmish maps:

skirmish_maps_rating.csv 2 kB · 38 downloads

1: Eyecandy (keep)

2: Still nice but some textures could be updated (keep)

3: Need some work, mostly on the texture side (maybe keep)

4: misc, similar to 3 (maybe keep)

5: Does not look nice or has a random map that is equally good (would't mind removal)

6: Definitive remove (Basically the trigger map)

apparently people have downloaded that rating quite a bit (Or one person just wanted it very many times ) and no one complained much about it. So one could think again about moving some of the lower rated maps into a separate mod to clean up the maps and to show only the best ones to the user?

[Radiotraining]

Love this!! I think I missed it. Nice work!

I wanted to comment the ratings, but then I realized that "1" wasn't a bad rating as opposed to be first on the podium

So, with that in mind, I think I generally agree with the list!    Great one!

Is there any idea/plan for new maps? Are you looking for help?

Who made the most recent ones? (some are fabulous!), is there any tutorial/advice/material that could be helpful to learn some tricks to make pretty-looking maps?

Anyway, need help?

[maroder]

It is always nice to have new and especially eyecandy looking skirmish maps, but I can't say much about the process how to submit them for the main game.

The last batch of new skirmish maps was afaik done by @wowgetoffyourcellphone who made them originally for DE.  So I guess you can get in touch with him and or @Stan` , but I think the trick is just to spend much time in atlas until you have something that looks nice

Personally I am at the moment more interested in an update for the random maps, as many of them lack behind in the level of refinement some of the skirmish maps have.

[Radiotraining]

Ah! Okay!

Yeah, I've experimented a bit while modding my stuff eheheh but nothing really serious..

But, in case, I can post here if there's something

good advice to maybe get in touch with them. I took a look at the threads on map overhaul, and maybe an help could be to fix/update the not-so-great maps already there. 

I don't know also if you guys have some particular scenarios in mind that could be explored.. don't be shy and share your ideas!