wackyserious Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 Can we add a scyt_champion_cavalry_archer unit template to Atlas? I have everything ready and I am just waiting for an approval to commit this. @LordGood @Stan` @Alexandermb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 Is that a DE only unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 8:56 AM, wackyserious said: scyt_champion_cavalry_archer Expand I'd use the whole syllable myself: scyth_ On 16/05/2020 at 9:45 AM, Stan` said: Is that a DE only unit? Expand This could actually be the elite Dahae horse archer for Seleucids and Persians. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 They look rather Greek to me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 1:27 PM, Nescio said: They look rather Greek to me ... Expand They were influenced by Greeks and used Chalcidian helmets, they also used other more eastern helmets but those are not in game yet: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 2:32 PM, Ultimate Aurelian said: They were influenced by Greeks and used Chalcidian helmets, they also used other more eastern helmets but those are not in game yet: Expand Actually I didn't mean their helmets, but their body armour: I suppose my view on Scythian armour is largely based on finds from the Issyk kurgan (a royal tomb in modern Kazakhstan): Reveal hidden contents The fact that the scale mail looks like a jacket corresponds with what is seen in Persian iconography, as do the trousers and pointy hat (which is probably ceremonial), e.g. Reveal hidden contents Behistun inscription (the last person is Skunxa the Scythian): Tomb of Darius I (Sakā means Scythian): I'm certainly no expert on things Scythian, though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) On 16/05/2020 at 2:53 PM, Nescio said: Actually I didn't mean their helmets, but their body armour: I suppose my view on Scythian armour is largely based on finds from the Issyk kurgan (a royal tomb in modern Kazakhstan): Expand Yes, scale is more appropriate than thorax; although some may have adopted it from hellenic neighbours. Edited May 16, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 2:32 PM, Ultimate Aurelian said: They were influenced by Greeks and used Chalcidian helmets, they also used other more eastern helmets but those are not in game yet: Expand That is a work for Alexandermb than for Wacky I mean other topic. You can open one if you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 9:45 AM, Stan` said: Is that a DE only unit? Expand No, all of this textures are new ones and I want to integrate them in the game by having a steppe horse archer champion unit available in Atlas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 1:27 PM, Nescio said: They look rather Greek to me ... Expand I was thinking about the Bosporan kingdoms when I came up with these designs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 16/05/2020 at 10:48 PM, wackyserious said: I was thinking about the Bosporan kingdoms when I came up with these designs. Expand Yes Black Sea kingdoms like Pontus and Bosphoran Kingdom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 17/05/2020 at 2:52 AM, wackyserious said: Expand Perhaps the scale leggings should have lacing on the back ? Like in medieval mail chausses. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Maybe it could use @Alexandermb's greaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 17/05/2020 at 3:23 AM, Ultimate Aurelian said: Perhaps the scale leggings should have lacing on the back ? Like in medieval mail chausses. Expand Several reconstructions and artist impressions show that these limb armors only protect frontal areas or sometimes the outer flanks of the limbs. I am about to commit there textures for the Seleucid Dahae Horse Archer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 10:28 AM, wackyserious said: I am about to commit there textures for the Seleucid Dahae Horse Archer Expand Keep in mind the Dahae lived to the North-East of Iran (in what is now Turkmenistan), not near the Bosporan Kingdom (now the Crimea). Furthermore, the Dahae horse archers were light cavalry, i.e. no body armour or shields; scale mail is only appropiate for champion cavalry, i.e. cataphracts, and heroes. Finally, the Dahae horse archer in 0 A.D. has recently been moved from the Seleucids to the Persians (rP23553). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 10:36 AM, Nescio said: Keep in mind the Dahae lived to the North-East of Iran (in what is now Turkmenistan), not near the Bosporan Kingdom (now the Crimea). Furthermore, the Dahae horse archers were light cavalry, i.e. no body armour or shields; scale mail is only appropiate for champion cavalry, i.e. cataphracts, and heroes. Finally, the Dahae horse archer in 0 A.D. has recently been moved from the Seleucids to the Persians (rP23553). Expand Good thing you had responded quick, I was about to commit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 10:36 AM, Nescio said: Keep in mind the Dahae lived to the North-East of Iran (in what is now Turkmenistan), not near the Bosporan Kingdom (now the Crimea). Furthermore, the Dahae horse archers were light cavalry, i.e. no body armour or shields; scale mail is only appropiate for champion cavalry, i.e. cataphracts, and heroes. Finally, the Dahae horse archer in 0 A.D. has recently been moved from the Seleucids to the Persians (rP23553). Expand But the Seleucid faction still have Dahae Horse Archers, right? I have assigned actor files in their simulation file. This was what I had in mind: Basic rank: Clothed in proper manner Advanced rank: Light to medium armor leather armor with some limb guards Elite rank: Heavily armored with scale, including limb guards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 10:44 AM, wackyserious said: But the Seleucid faction still have Dahae Horse Archers, right? I have assigned actor files in their simulation file. Expand Yes, as mercenaries, using the same actors as the Persians. The Seleucids were basically the successors of the Achaemenids, but the Dahae were independent nomadic tribes just beyond the empire's border, and those didn't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 10:44 AM, wackyserious said: This was what I had in mind: Basic rank: Clothed in proper manner Advanced rank: Light to medium armor leather armor with some limb guards Elite rank: Heavily armored with scale, including limb guards. Expand Your opening post suggested champion cavalry. While the b/a/e Dahae horse archers (and also the other Persian cavalry actors) currently have increasing amounts of body and horse armour, I believe that's not really historically accurate; I'd prefer it if all armour was removed from the (Persian) citizen cavalry, and used only for champion cavalry; instead, b/a/e could get increasingly fancy clothes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 10:54 AM, Nescio said: Yes, as mercenaries, using the same actors as the Persians. The Seleucids were basically the successors of the Achaemenids, but the Dahae were independent nomadic tribes just beyond the empire's border, and those didn't change. Expand This thread was actually meant to add a Scythian champion horse archer to Atlas On 18/05/2020 at 11:00 AM, Nescio said: Your opening post suggested champion cavalry. While the b/a/e Dahae horse archers (and also the other Persian cavalry actors) currently have increasing amounts of body and horse armour, I believe that's not really historically accurate; I'd prefer it if all armour was removed from the (Persian) citizen cavalry, and used only for champion cavalry; instead, b/a/e could get increasingly fancy clothes. Expand I will try to create actor concepts for lighter armored citizen cavalry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) On 18/05/2020 at 10:28 AM, wackyserious said: Several reconstructions and artist impressions show that these limb armors only protect frontal areas or sometimes the outer flanks of the limbs. I am about to commit there textures for the Seleucid Dahae Horse Archer Expand What i meant to say was not that they'd cover the back; just that the armor could have ties on the back of the leg to hold it in place. Quote I will try to create actor concepts for lighter armored citizen cavalry. Expand At most some of the Elite ones could have a helmet (I think the elite persian foot archer has a helmet). Also some Dahae Units from EB (Screenshots are a bit old): Edited May 18, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 I can show you what I'm doing for DE, just for reference. It can certainly be improved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) On 18/05/2020 at 10:40 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: I can show you what I'm doing for DE, just for reference. It can certainly be improved. Expand I think the transition for unarmored to fully armored is a bit jarring. Elite foot archers could have only helmets with perhaps a small chance of armor; Horse archers would get some helmets at advanced rank and be armored at elite. My understanding is that Steppe infantry was poorer and often levied from neighbouring peoples. Edited May 18, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted May 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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