===[COMMITTED]=== Civ: Rome Scutum

[Trinketos]

On 10/8/2019 at 9:47 PM, Alexandermb said:

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I am the  

 

I wish i had any kind of audio and proper rig and spread what i have leanerd so far of blender to all of you. Though the audio may be an issue since im spanish languaje native.

Existen los subtitulos.

Aunque si nosotros podemos aprender de videos en otros idiomas no veo porque los del foro no puedan. 

[Alexandermb]

20 minutes ago, Trinketos said:

Existen los subtitulos.

Aunque si nosotros podemos aprender de videos en otros idiomas no veo porque los del foro no puedan. 

Sep, pero el problema reside en que se llega a mas publico en general en ingles que en español, y que estaria a 5 fps en blender y el recorder jajaja.

[Stan`]

Yeah even text and images is good. Plus videos are really hard to get right

Also threads can be edited and improved

[Trinketos]

2 hours ago, Stan` said:

 

Concuerdo xd

 

2 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

 

A mi me pasa pero cuando intento jugar y grabar 0 A.D

[Alexandermb]

Question. did they had this shield leather cover upper and lower?  Because im planning to implement that for early hastati.

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[sphyrth]

I don't know about partial leather, but I think they used Leather Casing for their shields when not in use.

Guess that might give you an idea about the Shields on the Back.

[Alexandermb]

Found another reference using it, i think im gonna leave it for the Basic version of the hastati, it also has another spina version wich only cover till the leather sides. Gonna use thats for hastati to have differentiation between Hastati - Principes - Triarii.

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[Alexandermb]

Testing another oval shape: (Light Damage version)

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[Alexandermb]

My plan is to give specific shapes for each infantry, giving Oval-02 (Above texture) shape to hastatus.

Hastatus B: Oval - 02 leather layers Top/Bottom Animals in the middle.
Hastatus A: Oval - 02 Animals whitout Leather Layers.
Hastatus E: Oval - 03 Wings and thunders.

right now they use both the same shield in each rank:

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[wackyserious]

Don't make it too worn out, maybe only 25% ripped at maximum, dents would be a good weathering effect, submerged stab marks. Great work on these.

[Alexandermb]

Just now, wackyserious said:

Don't make it too worn out, maybe only 25% ripped at maximum, dents would be a good weathering effect, submerged stab marks. Great work on these.

i applied 4 texture for the damage, though im thinking on leaving only 3 (4th one looks kinda too much damaged):

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[wackyserious]

First and second ones are okay, the third one looks much damaged, what about dents on the spine? Most sword blows would be received by the spine, is this correct?

[Alexandermb]

3 hours ago, wackyserious said:

First and second ones are okay, the third one looks much damaged, what about dents on the spine? Most sword blows would be received by the spine, is this correct?

Thats the idea, getting damage over time until the shield is useless or barely recognizable, already tried focusing the damage on one spot, didn't work or would require another node tree wich im not aware yet.

[Alexandermb]

Basic Scutum type C ISW - B + Light Damaged variant.

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[Alexandermb]

I Have to bake first all the damaged version before moving the camera (renderer) to another place, or i won't be able to reproduce the texture, so i first will have to make every design.

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[wackyserious]

11 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

Thats the idea, getting damage over time until the shield is useless or barely recognizable, already tried focusing the damage on one spot, didn't work or would require another node tree wich im not aware yet.

The problem I am seeing was having a seasoned triarii equipped with battered equipment, the army was highly organized. 3rd variant seems okay if the damage would be reduced by 15-25%, other than that everything is pretty neat and awesome.

Would plain wooden (uncovered) variants be created too?

[Stan`]

@Alexandermb can you try lowering the spec a bit ? It feels like the shield is wet

[Alexandermb]

14 hours ago, wackyserious said:

The problem I am seeing was having a seasoned triarii equipped with battered equipment, the army was highly organized. 3rd variant seems okay if the damage would be reduced by 15-25%, other than that everything is pretty neat and awesome.

Would plain wooden (uncovered) variants be created too?

14 hours ago, wackyserious said:

The problem I am seeing was having a seasoned triarii equipped with battered equipment, the army was highly organized. 3rd variant seems okay if the damage would be reduced by 15-25%, other than that everything is pretty neat and awesome.

IE: i don't know if some of you have played Mount And Blade Saga. This games offer a good massive meele combat scenarios where you are trapped in the middle of a formation whitout able to retreat or move to much but keep pushing and figthing for the win in the front lane, at this point you wouldn't consider taking care of your shield and you will use it until it breaks and survive as long as possible most of the time your shield always breaks depending on the quality of it (gameplay speaking), but it always get really damaged if you are a melee figther. Playing as viking in viking conquest every fight i had to stole someone else shield to keep myself alive agains't strong enemies (champion units raiders)

The shield can be in optimal condition of course when the unit is at 100% Hp, But is pointless to imagine that in a fight "Shield wouldn't be that damage" or "That blunt wouldn't be there" Yes it does it will be strongly damaged, no matter what is the kind of metal or the strenght used agaisn't the shield. A human will preffer have his shield break than loose his life, a shield can be replaced a life doesn't.

Plus considering the space and the amount of texture that gona be used its better to show a huge difference per texture than having an slightly and barely noticeable from the distance:

Here an example of a gameplay view of the damage, barely noticeable the distance @Stan`  already reduced specular,

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Here closer:

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One can think the history says "With your shield or Above it" yeah pretty romantic quotes but a soldier wouldn't say "Oh my shield is broken! i don't have honor, i preffer to die!"

Another perfect example are the protest's of my country. They build shields to protect themselves of the bullets and granades, i was there and i know what a shield is and what it is his purpose when your life is in game you wouldn't have into account "Oh my shield!", you will use everything at your disposal to stay alive no matter what.

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5 hours ago, Stan` said:

@Alexandermb can you try lowering the spec a bit ? It feels like the shield is wet

Lowered a bit, increased bump strenght a bit, it looks like that because i had to change sun rotation to be able to see the bump + spec

[Alexandermb]

Good reference material to follow, already saw most of the paintings in other references (drawings and artistic paintings) but they use the same shield shape. Would it be better if i only use 1 shield shape instead of 2? and leave the actual shape we have for extraordinarii.

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https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?707889-UNITS-Roman-Republican-Shields

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Extraordinarii:

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Triarii And Advanced/Elite Hastati:

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Early Hastatii AKA Basic Rank Hastatii:

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Or just mixed ?

[Alexandermb]

Some of the designs i have done so far (obviously following references though sometime the republic designs are hard to find compared to wings and thunder).

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Not gonna post the damaged versions so you can find yourself immersive discovering the feature.

[Alexandermb]

All this time i was wondering why the normal map wasn't doing anny effect on shield. So after a playtest today for see how the shields work on romans i've just realized i had illumination effect disabled...

 

[Alexandermb]

So i guess i will have to bake normal map again with reduced strenght:

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[Alexandermb]

Some comparisson:

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Shields in rank order and alphabetical.

Hastatii - Basic Rank:

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Hastatii - Advanced Rank:

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Hastatii - Elite Rank:

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Triarii - Basic Rank:

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Triarii - Advanced Rank:

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Triarii - Elite Rank:

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[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Could you say the historical precedent for having the face on the shields?  Naturally that comes from Greek hoplites, but on the scutum it looks off.  I did a quick look on the web and only saw a reenactor using that kind of design.  Personally it seems perhaps a bit too far fetched that someone would paint that on that type of shield, but I'd appreciate some insight from someone more knowledgeable about Roman martial artwork than me.

[Alexandermb]

Honestly i didn't found any neither  but this re-enactor i imagine is the same you found:

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But as far as i've learned from history thanks to this forum, romans seem to be the ancient pirates of the copyright. They kinda stole everything they liked in the battlefield and adapted to their own taste ie: Gallic Coolus, Corinthian to Apullo - Corinthian, Chalcidean to Attic? i wouldn't be sure they didn't used it, but i've just did it because i saw it once with the reenactor and then secondly with a TWR2 Mod and i already had the greek face design already done in the aspis blender file and say why not?, if its okay and someone found more evidence sure, if doesn't then its replaced by another texture.

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