Cheat walls

[Jofursloft]

I wanted to ask if it's possible in the next alpha to fix this bug, that allows to the player to build multiple strats of walls in the same place. Pls stop this that makes always @Hannibal_Barca invincible on some types of maps -.- 

[Stan`]

I thought usually MP Ranked games had a "No wall allowed rule" ?

I don't think it can be fixed though. You can't really put a position restriction for walls... Nor a Max number of wall pieces...

[Jofursloft]

8 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

I thought usually MP Ranked games had a "No wall allowed rule" ?

With the new alpha 23 there are no more rules. Walls are part of the game and of the fun, and it's sometimes annoying this bug, cause it allows to some players (that maybe are weaker in game than you) to win for example a wonder or relic game

[Lion.Kanzen]

So this is cheat?

[Guest]

While fixing this particular thing maybe easy, it would come with major regressions. Pretty sure, it would make actually building walls a nightmare. That is unless a smarter way could not be found of course.

Stacked walls now...that Hannibal always trying to find the next bug exploit :-P

Edited November 4, 2018 by Guest

[Jofursloft]

29 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

So this is cheat?

Building multiple walls on the same place is cheat

[Genava55]

7 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

Building multiple walls on the same place is cheat 

I agree. It is easier to cover all side and it takes less space. It is not the same than successive walls.

[Stan`]

43 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

With the new alpha 23 there are no more rules. Walls are part of the game and of the fun, and it's sometimes annoying this bug, cause it allows to some players (that maybe are weaker in game than you) to win for example a wonder or relic game

Any particular reason for there being no more rules ? Just curious.

[Jofursloft]

1 minute ago, stanislas69 said:

 Any particular reason for there being no more rules ? Just curious.

I personally don't know. I "was born" where people were even fooling around if they player with cavs, bolts, siege towers or walls. So I was really weirded when alpha 23 was released because I had to learn again how to play in 0ad, and it wook me a lot of time. So, I really don't know why we passed from a rule-based alpha to a everything-free new alpha. ANyway, I personally prefer games with no rules, because they are more realistic and also more funny 

[Stan`]

10 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

ANyway, I personally prefer games with no rules, because they are more realistic and also more funny 

Sure, makes sense

[Imarok]

32 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Any particular reason for there being no more rules ? Just curious.

Things got more balanced. Previous alphas there were some definitely unbalanced parts. Those were ruled out. A23 seems to have a lack of clearly op things. (Besides a mass of catas and bolts maybe)

[Jofursloft]

1 minute ago, Imarok said:

Besides a mass of catas and bolts maybe

Mass of catas and bolts are surely op, but remember they need a lot of time and resources to make, so I don't think we have to work in this direction, but to fix some thing that are clearly op in games like 1v1 or team games in mainland

[thankforpie]

On 11/4/2018 at 10:15 PM, Jofursloft said:

Mass of catas and bolts are surely op, but remember they need a lot of time and resources to make, so I don't think we have to work in this direction, but to fix some thing that are clearly op in games like 1v1 or team games in mainland

so stacked bolts are less op than stacked walls?

 

[Jofursloft]

2 hours ago, thankforpie said:

 so stacked bolts are less op than stacked walls?

Yes. Something like 12 walls on the same place are OP because behind you can put a large quantity of catapults to destroy attacking bolts for example, while the enemy takes a lot of time to destroy them and your units a really low time to build them

I appreciate a lot the question mark man anyway  XD

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jofursloft

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:43 PM, Jofursloft said:

I personally don't know. I "was born" where people were even fooling around if they player with cavs, bolts, siege towers or walls. So I was really weirded when alpha 23 was released because I had to learn again how to play in 0ad, and it wook me a lot of time. So, I really don't know why we passed from a rule-based alpha to a everything-free new alpha. ANyway, I personally prefer games with no rules, because they are more realistic and also more funny 

We can called handicaps or challenges.

[FeXoR]

We could add a minimum angle restriction between the newly placed walls and those already connected to the same tower.

What about limiting access to stone when the game advances (Yea, but slingers/catapults/... ;/)? Though a minimum angle definitely makes sense to me, too.

 

A more personal request of mine would be to use the words "bug" and "cheat" more specifically - for they have a meaning and are useful in communicating game development. So please mind your words - and if only for my mental stability ;p

[Guest]

A minimum angle should depend on the wall size I guess. But, I think a better solution would be to find the missing placement check. I couldnt find anything in the commit logs, but I still get the feeling it was a wall placement patch introduced kinda recently. It fixed placement after another bug prevented walls from being built entirely.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Guest

[Imarok]

5 hours ago, (-_-) said:

A minimum angle should depend the wall size I guess. But, I think a better solution would be to find the missing placement check. I couldnt find anything in the commit logs, but I still get the feeling it was a wall placement patch introduced kinda recently. It fixed placement after another bug prevented walls from being built entirely.

The problem is, that we have only three distinct wall lengths. To allow arbitrary lengthy walls get built, without letting units through, we have to allow overlapping walls.

[elexis]

On 11/4/2018 at 9:39 PM, stanislas69 said:

Any particular reason for there being no more rules ? Just curious. 

scythetwirler had changed siege engines to be much more effective in Alpha 21 or so. It was mentioned in the trailer. A23 is indeed the most stable balance I played so far (still imperfect in various ways).

[Hannibal_Barca]

I see that my latest exploit hit the news.

It is true that it is a bit unfair, since I started using this strategy some players call "gg" upon me building a wonder/capturing the relics.

 

@(-_-) it is true that I always try to keep myself up-to-date, leading the fashion in 0 A.D. bugs and abuse is what I do.

Nevertheless, one could argue that this effective bug detection and its subsequent systematic abuse will drive people who play with me to campaign to get the bug fixed ( @elexis ).

Numerous game weaknesses (not just game exploits) have been unearthed in such a fashion, leading to the overall improvement of the game!

[7yl4r]

More wall-building rules sounds like a headache, but maybe this strategy could be mitigated another way?

Collapsing walls could splash damage to other walls nearby; this would perhaps be a negligible amount for a line of walls but would eventually cause a chain reaction for big wall stacks like those.

Is there any related code for on-death damage and unit-type-filtering on damage? I can't think of anything else in game that works that way unfortunately.

Edited January 9, 2019 by 7yl4r
+ note RE technical considerations

[Stan`]

There is on death damage. Was added by @Mate-86 in https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP19950